The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?

[Georgiy]

Clearly, OTMA lived in a dysfunctional family system

Please forgive any offense, but I think this is looking at a pre WW1 Orthodox family and judging through 21st Century western, or western-influenced eyes, which is like trying to compare chalk and cheese.

That the Emperor and Empress tried to raise their children to be pious and with a great love for God in their hearts is a duty of every Orthodox parent.

These days we are so used to thinking about all our worldly joys and needs etc, it seems (I may be wrong here) that we neglect our inner selves. A hundred years ago, even in the west, people led much more family-centred lives and made their own entertainment much more than these days. While OTMA may have had even less outside entertainments than say their contemporaries,  I do not think they were deprived. The 'entertainment' factor of their lives might have got less stimulation than some of us these days would like, but their souls and hearts were not neglected. To say that they were part of a disfunctional family is I think to miss the point, and uses 21st century terminology for a modern malaise which I think can not be applied to a quite different culture, mind set, world view and way of thinking.

[Finelly]

They were not the typical orthodox family by any stretch of the imagination.

They were not even the typical orthodox ROYAL family by any stretch of the imagination!  They had a neurotic mother, a passive father, an ill brother whose illness was kept a deep, dark secret, relatives who hated their parents (or at least their mother) and made that clear to all, and no court life.

To refuse to use new understandings and knowledge to assess the past sort of beside the entire point of this board!  

[Georgiy]

I realise this is the wrong place to ask this, as it is not entirely related to the topic, but are you Orthodox and do you know how an Orthodox person lives, what they believe or what their world-view is? Otherwise I would suggest that you are not really in a position to say whether were a typical Orthodox family or not.

[Finelly]

I'm Orthodox.  Orthodox Jew.

And my relatives were tortured and slaughtered for generations by Orthodox Christians in Russia.

But besides that, I think I have read just about every biography of Romanov relatives that exists in English, and almost every book about the fate of the Romanovs.

So, yes, I think I'm in something of a position to be able to venture an opinion.

[Georgiy]

Maybe we are both looking at it from positions that could hardly be called neutral.
:-/
I too have read pretty much everything out there in English that there is to read on the Romanovs, and some in Russian too, but I will stand by my point that we can't judge a very different way of culture and thinking with terms syptomatic of 21st Cetury malaise.

[hikaru]

I have found an intresting description of the Easter Holliday in Alexandr Palace written by Count A. Scherbatov ( The Faberge cache-cache ( hide - and - seek) ara marvelous)
" In 1915 war-year we went for Easter Holliday to the children of the Emperor Nicholas II. Emperor was not this time in the Palace, probably , he was at Stavka. Usually, somebody guided us to him and we just made a bow to him.
Older daughters welcomed the guests wearing the Nurse's uniforms. Empresse Alexandra Feodorovna , always , enchanting and kind, embraced and kissed us one by one , and also she caressed our little heads.
She was a beauty, but , Her sister Elizaveta Feodorovna was regarded as an unbelievable beauty. Adults used to say that  all men loose their heads for her.  
My favorite one of Tsar's children was Maria. She was extremely  kind and attentive. Younger children , as all of us , used to wear a sailor suits. Everybody used only
Russian language but Alexandra Feodorovna had some lovely accent.  My mother, sometimes, spoke in English to her. My mother's English was ideal one, but my father prefered French to English.
Actually, My mother had a more freind connection with Marie Feodorovna than with her daughter - in -law.
The mother of the Emperor was more open lady.
But the best real friend of my mother always was Olyga Alexandrovna, sister of  Nicholas II. While adultls were talking to each other, children drank tea, hot chocolate and cacao with an apple pie. Then we played toys for a while, but it was not so intresting: we have the same toys. The same toys as at my home, were not attracted me much. I remeber , that we had the same Railroad with Alexey - just station's names were differeng. He had not my favorite beloved station named " Dno" so his railroad was worser than my.
Expecting the main event, everybody ,  if it was possible,  slowly walked  speaking about various things.
We gathered together for the following event:  a day before holliday, the Empresse hided  litte Faberge things, tiny gold eggs and other souvenirs  between pillows , into the  foldes of sofas and other furniture like that. Then the invited childred had a fun by seaeking
all that staff.  I do not remember clearly, but it seems to me that I could find out 1 or 2 small things that time. I was 5 years old. For 5 years old boy the things are not so valuable, but there were such funny and such enjoyable. I thought , that in every ideal house should be like this - funny and enjoyable"

Pls correct My English, if any

[charley]

I have to say my life mimics the Grand Duchesses in so many ways.  There were five girls in my family and the older ones were called the "Big Ones" and the younger ones were called the "Little Ones" similiar to the GD's.  We had to travel around often and having the sisters was all we really needed.  The GD's had each other and they probably did not feel a need to have alot of friends.  Alexei on the other hand was the only boy, so I imagined he needed some friends.  As for the letter writing.  The same thing goes on in my family with my children.  I may be resting in my room and my children will place notes under the door.  If you did not understand the workings of our family, you would think that these notes were the only connection between my children and myself.  It has more to do with the love the Grand Duchesses felt for their mother and my children feel towards me.  It is beautiful.

[Finelly]

Well, but there are certainly indications that the girls harbored some resentment toward their mother (referring to her staying in bed as "tiresome", and longing for more freedom).  It wasn't all a bed of roses.  The family was quite dysfunctional.

The fact that one of them always had to attend their mother was another problem.  They were good about taking turns but it cannot have been easy.

Certainly at the end, there was estrangement between the family members and Olga was barely speaking to her sisters at all.  A and M were more social.  They craved contact with others, while Olga was more inhibited and stayed away from others outside of the family.

[sailor_of_standart]

I believe the isolation has happened in many royal families.
Even those of today.   The british royals such as C,A,A and E were raised by themselves their mother was to busy to interact with her children.  
The Danish Royals, prince Fredrick said he and his brother were raised by their nannies and they lived in the top half of the palace.  They simply did not get to see their parents and if they did it was only for a few minutes or if they had to be scolded.  Their childhood was strict and sadden that they never got to be raised like normal children.
That is why his bride Princess Mary is going to raise their child without nannies.

[Romanov_fan]

I think that isiolation or living in a fish bowl as it is put in modern times happens in all Royal families to various degrees depending on many things. After all, the reality that Royalty know is not the reality we have. Modern  young royals are more in touch with the ordinary wood than royal children of those times were. There was even more isolation back then, than there is today. Of course, Otma were affected by this, and any books which note this are correct, unfortunatly. They were probably even more isiolated than most royals then, because Nicholas and Alexandra never made them aware of the world of the court, which many royals of that time knew, much less the outside world of ordinary reality.

But in their last year, when they were young adults I think they learned much about reality and how to deal with it. They were made aware of a brutal reality, and they had to come to terms with it. I think on the night they died, they were not so childish and naive. As for whether isolation was wholly negative or not, that should have its own thread. I could write a book on that subject alone.

[julia.montague]

I read that the girls were not able to make conversations like adults (even when they were grown-up), because they nearly never met other people.

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, I think they did to some extent, because they were isolated to a degree, but to regard them merely as childish is a mistake, because they were more than that, but they may not have been as adult or contemporary to their age in their behaviour and habits, and conversation. But at least Olga by the time of her death knew the world to some extent, and acted adult. I think ''innocent'' a better term than ''childish'' because that is what Otma were: sheltered and innocent. Childish sometimes, but they were, of course, not very old, nor very worldly wise, but then royalty, especially in that era were very sheltered and had different mores and a different way of life-any way, Welcome to the board, I am 19, female , from IA and hope you have a great experience here!

[Janet_W.]

Think about all the times you've seen a group of teenage girls chattering away. Or, if it applies, think about the times you've chatted with your teenage girlfriends! When it comes to speech and other behaviors, teens very typically appear to have regressed, and much of what they say is purposely in a self-conscious "code" so as to set themselves apart from others. I have the feeling this is what was overheard by palace staff.

With regards to both Olga and Tatiana, we know that at necessary and often critical times, they could speak as well as any diplomat.

[Russian_Duchess_#5]

I do not think that this criticism was accurate. In that era, manners were all very critical and every move was watched. I think that whoever said this was harsh, and to an extent, not true.
Olga read extensively, so she probably had an extensive vocabulary.
Tatyana was fromally very proper and, in my opinion, was the most elegant of the sisters.
I do not understand WHY they would sound like children around meeting people.


Sofi

[Russian_Duchess_#5]

Oh, and welcome Ida!!

Sofi