Author Topic: How Russian Orthodox Church Feels Today In Russia  (Read 14703 times)

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Tania

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How Russian Orthodox Church Feels Today In Russia
« on: April 28, 2006, 10:05:53 PM »
I have been searching through many websites, trying to gain some understanding of how today, the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia, feels today on a number of issues, includes the Russian Revolution, etc. I have also been searching for websites to see how various other Orthodox Churches feel, but have not found many. For me it is very slow going due my own specific health issues, but I want to really try to understand from every perspective how each part of the society in Russia, and outside Russia came to feel about the Russian Revolution. I know the Russian Orthodox Church outside of Russia, may have a different perspective than that of the Church in Russia. I think for those who are not Russian Orthodox it is even more perplexing in trying to understand.

When Communism took Russia, [and other eastern block countries] Religion till Stalin came to power was banned, and your life meant nothing. Countless lives of church officials, workers, priests and nuns were murdered on the spot, or sent to Siberia to die terrible deaths. When WWII came to Russia, and Hitler advanced into Russia and broke the treaty with Stalin, Stalin realized he needed The Russian Orthodox Church, it's priests, nuns, and all of those who had not been murdered, to revitalize, and renew faith if you will, so all of Russia would join en mass, and overthrow the Nazis. It worked, but then again, the church still was not given any real freedoms, and neither were the people of Russia.

Historical value has been given from every point, from notable persons, to that of people from outside Russia, who wanted to shine light on historical points they thought the public should know. But I think the Russian Church in Russia has never [or at least I have not found anything to date] shared their thoughts or feelings, as I found on this particular website. Today, while searching the Internet, I found this recent posting from the Website:http://www.russia-hc.ru/eng/index.cfm, authored by: the parish of Moscow's St Mitrophan of Voronezh Church and the Church of the Annunciation of the Most Holy Theotokos in Petrovsky Park. I was certainly surprised of all they delved into on the website, and what they shared in full. I can see why from outside Russia, controversy would ensue on some of these statements. Still, many have had their viewpoints open and shared globally. I now understand how much religion was for the Russian people in terms of their daily intake, and their mainstay of every home of those religiously oriented.

I have gained much insight from the many offerings posted from our many readers, and still there is so much to absorb. It's not to say I agree with many statements, or how perspectives are looked at, but it allows one a variance of understandings, and of how people come to feel the way they do.

If any should see other websites on the Russian Orthodox Church from Russia, or Orthodox Churches outside of Russia, expressing their feelings on the Russian Revolution, I would like to view them, preferably in English. I believe there also have been Russian Church Leaders who escaped from Russia sharing their stories, feelings. I have found very few websites to date. These websites to me especially, would be very important to read.

Thank you for any assist you can share. I am very appreciative.

Tatiana+

« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 10:23:37 AM by Alixz »

Offline pookiepie

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Re: How Russian Orthodox Church Feels Today In Rus
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 01:28:48 PM »
I don't know much about the ROC (I'm part of ROCOR) but it sounds unlikley that Stalin revitalized the church only to get rid of the Nazi's. Like you said, the church still was not given any real freedoms, and neither were the people of Russia, so it sounds like there was something else going on.

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Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian chu
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2006, 02:38:12 PM »
For those of you who are familiar with this, what do you think about this? Should it happen or not?

For those of you who aren't, here's a little info although I'll say right now, I don't know much about the situation. After the revolution, some people felt that the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) had become corrupt (ties with the KGB, communism, etc…) so they were given permission to break off and continue the true faith. This church became known as the Russina Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). Now that communism is over, we should come back. The thought is right, we should join, but we don't know for sure if the ROC has renounced it's past. That's my only issue. It is a known fact that the currect head of the ROC, the Moscow patriarch (MP), is an ex- KGB member. He has already apologized. However, some argue that there's no such thing as an ex-KGB.

Tania

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2006, 06:43:03 PM »
Are you Russian Orthodox ?
What more do you know about these churches inside outside Russia ?

Tatiana+

David_Pritchard

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2006, 11:09:26 PM »
[size=14]Senior MP hails possible Russian Orthodox churches' reunification 19:16 | 13/ 05/ 2006
  
 MOSCOW, May 13 (RIA Novosti) - The reunification of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia would be an event of tremendous importance, a senior member of the Russian lower chamber of parliament said Saturday.

"This would be a great event," said Natalia Narochnitskaya, deputy head of the State Duma's international committee and president of the Historical Perspective Foundation, a non-governmental organization. "The Russian people have risen to this historic challenge."

The ROCOR approved a resolution at its All-Diaspora Council Friday to reunify with the Moscow Patriarchate, the move that lays the groundwork for a canonical decision on the matter. According to the resolution, the ROCOR could be a self-governed branch within the Moscow Patriarchate, similar to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Narochnitskaya said the resolution was the Council's main outcome.

"The Church, as Corpus Christi, will be united, even though as an institution it will have some organizational specifics," she said, adding that it was not important how long the process might take.

Revolutions in 1917 and the ensuing Civil War in Russia caused a split in the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1920s, when some top clergy in exile refused to be subordinated to Church leaders who allegedly collaborated with the Communists.

Narochnitskaya said it was extremely important for a nation to reach internal accord and end a schism. She said reunification would help Russia bolster its spiritual linchpin, which holds everything together, turning a territory with natural resources into a state and an agglomeration of people into a nation.

"We have made a spiritual effort, crucial for Russia's further existence," she said.

Narochnitskaya said the ROC's membership in the World Council of Churches, a liberal ecumenical movement that brings together more than 340 churches, denominations, and fellowships in more than 100 countries, was not an obstacle to the Orthodox Church's reunification.

She dismissed some of ROCOR officials' criticism of the ROC for contacts with the state throughout the Soviet era, saying it was impossible to live in a state without interacting with it.

Norochnitskaya said the ROC, on the contrary, helped people in the former Soviet Union preserve their faith.

"We have always been grateful to them [ROC clergy], as they preserved in love and faith the Russia we have lost," the MP said.

She said joining together modern Russia and a Russia remembered and preserved by Russian emigrants was an objective facing the present generation.
[/size]

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2006, 05:00:39 PM »
yes, i'm russian orthodox.
If you want to learn more, here are some good sites:

www.rocor.org    (russian and english)

www.sobor2006.com    (russian and english) this is about the meeting that went on this past week in San Francisco to see if we should join or not.

right now, the main page of rocor's site is exactly the same as sobor2006's because this is kind of a big thing in the rocor. but there are other things you can check out there.

www.pravos.org  (russian only) is kinda the same, should we join or not...

I think there is another condition before we can continue and that is for the ROC to not be ecumenical anymore.

David_Pritchard

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2006, 06:39:27 PM »
I agree with you about ecumenism. It is not a good thing for large establised churches as it erodes the prestige of the old churches for the benefit of the small self-styled churches. I wish that all the Orthodox Churches would abandon the World Council of Churches and other such bodies.

I have never been to a ROCOR church but I have attended many services at Orthodox Church in America churches (under the Moscow Patriarchate) as well as those in Moscow, Riga, Saint Petersburg, Nizhni Novgorod and Tallinn (before they became autocephalous) directly under the patriarchate.

I am pleased that they are considering reunification with the Moscow Patriarchate and I hope that do return.

David

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2006, 11:15:03 AM »
ARe you sure OCA is under the MP? i heard they separated (don't know from who) but in order to do that they had to acknowledge the ROC/MP as the true church rather than ROCOR.

David_Pritchard

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2006, 11:19:59 PM »
You are correct, the OCA is now an Autocephalus Church. This status was granted by HH Aleksei II of Moscow and all of Russia. The Moscow Patriarchate did however retain one parish in the USA, the Saint Nicholas Cathedral in New York City. A beautiful church which I had the pleasure to visit on one occassion, about ten maybe eleven years ago.

David
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 12:15:23 AM »
The present head of the Moscow Patriarchy was an ex- KGB personnage until the soviet regime collapsed. He has publically apologized for this indiscretion.

If any reunification is to ever occur, Alexei II should graciously step aside so that a genuine reconciliation can take place.


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David_Pritchard

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 12:27:37 AM »
Quote
The present head of the Moscow Patriarchy was an ex- KGB personnage until the soviet regime collapsed. He has publically apologized for this indiscretion.

If any reunification is to ever occur, Alexei II should graciously step aside so that a genuine reconciliation can take place.

[ch1041][ch1077][ch1083][ch1086][ch1095][ch1082][ch1072]-

You speak with such certainty and authority, are you a bishop or an archimandrite of ROCOR? If not, you simply come accross to me as one of those perpetually malcontent Russian émigrés that one finds living in large numbers in the cities of New York, Paris and San Francisco.

David

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 12:49:30 AM »
I agree with belochka. if the MP is still a practicing KGB member (notice i said IF), it would be disastrous to join. that's obvious.

And i don't understand why some people get like that. why do you have to be a bishop or archimandrite to have an opinion like that? your comment seems to lump anyone who is against unification into one group of self-righteous folks and that's not fair. it doesn't matter if you are a bishop. i think if you are well informed about the issues, there's nothing wrong with that statement. yes, the bishops are the ones making the decision but there are a few (very few) who would agree with belochka.

David_Pritchard

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2006, 01:20:00 AM »
Quote
I agree with belochka. if the MP is still a practicing KGB member (notice i said IF), it would be disastrous to join. that's obvious.

And i don't understand why some people get like that. why do you have to be a bishop or archimandrite to have an opinion like that? your comment seems to lump anyone who is against unification into one group of self-righteous folks and that's not fair. it doesn't matter if you are a bishop. i think if you are well informed about the issues, there's nothing wrong with that statement. yes, the bishops are the ones making the decision but there are a few (very few) who would agree with belochka.

The KGB has been disbanded. The successor organs are FSB and FSK.

How exactly am I being unfair? Is Belochka being unfair when she disagrees with me or is the concept of fair a one way street?

So according to your own words as I understand them, the people who would actually make the decision about the unification of ROCOR with the Moscow Patriarchate would not agree with Belochka, correct

David

Offline Belochka

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2006, 02:52:15 AM »
If there is re-unification then the Russian Orthodox Church needs to start with a fresh politically neutral profile to appease the Russian diaspora.

The present incumbant has had an unfortunate history which should preclude him from being the leader of the ROCOR component.  ROCOR was never subserviant to the communist philosophy which Alexeii II was compelled to observe, to remain viable in a theoretically athiestic country.

Alexei II refuses to recognize that the Imperial remains are authentic. This is yet another contentious issue that needs to be addressed.

The constitutional position of the Moscow Orthodox Church and the State is not the same as abroad.
 


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Tania

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Re: Russian Church abroad to join with the Russian
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2006, 02:58:00 PM »
The statement below are for me most relevant, and needed. Once this transpires, I believe much more will be attained, and for the whole of Russia. Thank you Belochka for voicing this important understanding.

Tatiana+



Quote
If there is re-unification then the Russian Orthodox Church needs to start with a fresh politically neutral profile to appease the Russian diaspora.

The present incumbant has had an unfortunate history which should preclude him from being the leader of the ROCOR component.  ROCOR was never subserviant to the communist philosophy which Alexeii II was compelled to observe, to remain viable in a theoretically athiestic country.

Alexei II refuses to recognize that the Imperial remains are authentic. This is yet another contentious issue that needs to be addressed.

The constitutional position of the Moscow Orthodox Church and the State is not the same as abroad.