Author Topic: The palaces of the Gagarins  (Read 20414 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jacqueline

  • Guest
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2006, 03:11:18 AM »
Quote
Quote
The Gagarins are a cadet line of the House of Rurik originating from the ancient Principality of Starodub. There are some members of the Princely House of Gagarin still living in Saint Petersburg, among them Prince Andrei Petrovich Gagarin, the present day Marshal of the Nobility of Saint Petersburg.

David

Dear David,

Previously the Marchel of the Nobility was one Prince A. Galitizine.  His "galitzine-ness" so to speak was VERY contested by the near entire corpus ofo Galitzines abroad.  Remember -- it is highly unlikely that any of the high dvoristiantsvo firstly survived the early years and then the Stalin years.  Very dubious.  His credentials at best deserve extremely close scrutiny.

My contacts in Paris tell me that the same feeling prevails in respect of this Prince Gargarin.  While he may recommend himself as a true Gargarin, this has not passed muster with the entire Gargarin family association.

Soviet Russia was a "pakazuha" and I am sure that Belochka can explain in details the meaning of this term.  The Gargarins did emigrate nearly en masse; their estate, as we have seen here, was pillaged, etc., etc. and they did nearly all eventually end up in Paris.

The view in the emigration of this entire Order of Nobility in Russia is one of extreme suspicion.  It might be called perhaps even misinformation which is no strange occurence givien the regime over there that preceded the current republican administration.

And our readers need to be advised of that.  For example, there are reall USD 100.00 bills in circulation and then there are some forgeries, that look very much like the originial.  Except that they are fake.



I met Andrei Petrovich during my visit to St.Petersburg 10 years ago this month and the meeting left me full of doubts. Andrei Petrovich certainly didn't seem like a Gagarin Prince but it was not up to me to judge. The family is  definitely split on this issue. In fact, there has ben a request for DNA testing of Andrei Petrovich, which he has wholeheartedly refused.

Offline AlexP@asia.com

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • GuangZhou, GuangDong, China
    • View Profile
    • Russian Shanghai
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2006, 07:36:35 AM »
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.26

Bien chère Jacqueline,

Je vous remercie bien de votre gentille missive et je vous en sais bien gré.  

Ainsi le bon homme ne consentira point aux examens médicaux....

Just what I thought...de la postiche..."pa sovietckii"...sans doute.

Are you in Paris?  Do you go to the rue Daru?  How I miss those beautiful services...but I am not sure now that I would be pleased to hear Russian Orthodox Services in French.... cela me frappe au mauvais sens du terme...

Anyway, all of the best from GuagZhou and I hope that you will follow this thread carefully.

Bonne continuation!

From GuangZhou, PRC

Alex P.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AlexP@asia.com »
All of the Very Best from GuangZhou.

Offline AlexP@asia.com

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • GuangZhou, GuangDong, China
    • View Profile
    • Russian Shanghai
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2006, 07:38:34 AM »
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.26

Bien chère Jacqueline,

Je vous remercie bien de votre gentille missive et je vous en sais bien gré.  

Ainsi le bon homme consentira point aux examens médicaux....

Just what I thought...de la postiche..."pa sovietckii"...sans doute.

Are you in Paris?  Do you go to the rue Daru?  How I miss those beautiful services...but I am not sure now that I would be pleased to hear Russian Orthodox Services in French.... cela me frappe au mauvais sens du terme...

Anyway, all of the best from GuagZhou and I hope that you will follow this thread carefully.

Bonne continuation!

From GuangZhou, PRC

Alex P.
All of the Very Best from GuangZhou.

jacqueline

  • Guest
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2006, 11:55:18 PM »
Quote
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.26

Bien chère Jacqueline,

Je vous remercie bien de votre gentille missive et je vous en sais bien gré.  

Ainsi le bon homme consentira point aux examens médicaux....

Just what I thought...de la postiche..."pa sovietckii"...sans doute.

Are you in Paris?  Do you go to the rue Daru?  How I miss those beautiful services...but I am not sure now that I would be pleased to hear Russian Orthodox Services in French.... cela me frappe au mauvais sens du terme...

Anyway, all of the best from GuagZhou and I hope that you will follow this thread carefully.

Bonne continuation!

From GuangZhou, PRC

Alex P.

Dear Alex P.,

Thank you for your response.  

Malheureusement, je ne vis pas à Paris et  je n'ai jamais eu l'opportunité de visiter rue Daru. However, I have to say I feel the same way about the services... it's not the same when it is in French (or English).

My immediate family no longer lives in France.  I believe there is a very distant branch of the family that still lives in Paris but we do not have contact with them. (Perhaps these are the ones with whom you are familiar)  Like many others during that time, my family became separated during the revolution. After fighting the bolsheviks for as long as he could, my great grandfather made his way to Baden Baden and then rejoined my great grandmother in Paris (who had to escape with my grandfather through the Crimea, dressed like peasants). After they found each other in Paris, the family moved to Nice in 1922 (Avenue Gay- near L'Eglise Russe) and then to Marrakech after WWII. Currently, my mother and I are in San Francisco, California but most of the other Gagarins are on the east coast of the USA.

This website is very interesting and I will try to follow this thread closely now.

Thank you for the nice welcome,
Jacqueline

P.S. My mother told me that she just found the photo album from when my uncle visited Nikolskoye Gagarino. She said that the people from the town still remember my family very well (even after all this time) and they only had nice things to say. If my uncle allows me, I will post pictures from his trip to Nikolskoye here.  However, I would still like to find some early pictures, from before WWII, especially of the church and the estate interiors.  I know it might be impossible to find these types of photographs but I am very curious about that place. My Russian language skills are very rudimentary, so it makes research difficult. Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thank you all again. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jacqueline »

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 552
  • If I should die,think only this of me...R.Brooke
    • View Profile
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2008, 07:56:59 AM »
http://www.mnweekly.ru/local/20080208/55308724.html

No bride wants to spend her wedding day standing in line on the sidewalk. Unfortunately this was the fate of many Moscow brides last year as a surge in the number of weddings saw over-stretched registry offices across the city come to resemble production lines, churning out happy newlyweds at breakneck speed. Now the city authorities have revealed plans to ease up congestion and restore the magic of a Moscow wedding by converting a former palace into a specialized venue for weddings.

The red and white classical palace is the former residence of the Gagarin Princes. Built in 1780, it was described by the great French classicist Stendhal as the most splendid palace he had ever seen - shortly before it was burned down during Napoleon's occupation of Moscow in 1812. Fortunately it was rebuilt in the same year and had a procession of prosperous and noble owners, including the exclusive English Club, a group of the richest high-born foreigners in Moscow.

"This is a building of great historical and architectural value," Tatiana Yuvakova, deputy department chief of ZAGS Civil registry office told The Moscow News.

"The decision to convert this building was made by the mayor while he was visiting a registry office. At the moment we have a big problem in Moscow because there is a lack of large, detached premises that would be appropriate for use as registry offices," she added.

The former palace now houses city hospital number 24. But officials from the civil registry office, ZAGS, say that the hospital will be relocated by June so that the restoration and conversion of the building into a registry office can begin.

There are currently 29 registry offices in Moscow straining to cope with the growing number of weddings in the city. Last year, there were 88,060 weddings in Moscow; 9,300 more than the previous year.

"The problem is that on Fridays and Saturdays there can be as many 40 or 60 marriages in one registry office in one day. So it is impossible to put much soul into the ceremony; the registry office has become like a conveyor belt," Yuvakova explains.

This crush is added to by the increasing number of guests present at registry office ceremonies. According to ZAGS between 20 and 60 people now typically attend a ceremony, whereas in the past only a handful of people would be invited to the registry office, with the majority of guests only attending the reception afterwards. Renovation designs for the former palace will take account of this trend and will include at least two spacious halls to accommodate heavily attended ceremonies.   

Moscow authorities cannot yet comment on the timeframe of the palace renovation as a proper assessment cannot be made while the building is still a working hospital. But once work is complete Moscow's sidewalks will be swept clean of loitering brides; instead a special waiting area is planned in the palace grounds in a garden that will be modeled on Versailles. Every Russian bride will then have the opportunity to play the fairy tale princess on her special day, rather than the factory chicken.



Does anybody owns pics of that palace?


V
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 08:12:16 AM by Vassili_Vorontsoff »

Offline Reco

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2008, 08:26:04 PM »
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 08:28:02 PM by Reco »

Offline Natali Bondareva

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2008, 11:10:52 AM »
http://www.nataturka.ru/ Памятники архитектуры Подмосковья (сайт Натальи Бондаревой)
http://www.nataturka.ru/usadiba/nik_gag.html Усадьба Никольское Гагарино

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 552
  • If I should die,think only this of me...R.Brooke
    • View Profile
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2009, 08:13:43 AM »
Many thanks as usual Reco, beautiful pics!

Offline BobG

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 426
  • George of Greece
    • View Profile
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2009, 10:16:41 AM »
Just so there is no confusion, I believe the plan that Reco posted is the Gargarin palace on the Palace embankment in St. Petersburg not the Moscow palace being turned into a palace of weddings.  Does anyone know the address of the Gargarin palace (or the city hospital #24) in Moscow?

BobG

Offline Reco

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The palaces of the Gagarins
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2009, 09:45:15 PM »
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/17731632

Olga Yakovenko, on January 11, said:

TO EVERYBODY: English Moscow English Club had been renting the palace of the princes Gagarin located at the corner of Petrovka Str, and Strastnoy Bld form 1802 to 1812. In this very Club the famous banquet in honour of the prince P.I. Bagration, the great general of the company 1812 took place, and this banquet is described in the roman “War and Peace by Leon Tolstoy” as organized by the elder Rostov. The building was erected in 1776 according the project of the architect M.F. Kozakov for the family of the princes Gagarin. During the Napoleon stay in Moscow the headquarters of the Main French Army Quartermaster were located in this palace. Stendhal, who belonged to that staff, had been living here and wrote; “There is no one club in Paris which could be compared with this one”. The building was practically completely fired in 1812 and then restored by the architect O.I. Bove up to 1833. In that time there was opened a hospital named Novo-Ekaterinenskaya, now this is a city hospital No 24.

Français Le Club Anglais de Moscou de 1802 jusqu’  1812 louait le palais des princes Gagarine qui se trouve au coin de la rue Petrovka et du Boulevard Strastnoy. C’est dans ce Club qu’on a donné le célèbre banquet en honneur du prince P.I. Bagration, le général fameux de la compagne 1812, qui est décrit dans le romand de Léon Tolstoy « La guerre et la paix » comme organisé par Rostov-père. Le bâtiment était construit en 1776 d’après le projet de M.F. Kozakov pour la famille Gagarine. Pendant le séjour des troupes de Napoléon   Moscou, ce bâtiment était occupé par les états-majors de l Intendant principal de l’Armée française. Stendhal, qui appartenait au personnel de ces états-majors, habitait ici et écrivait les « Lettres de la Russie », et en particulier : “A Paris il n’y aucun Club qu’on puisse comparer avec celui-l ”. Le bâtiment était presque totalement brûlé en 1812 et restauré par l’architecte O.I Bove vers 1833. Dès ce temps on y   placé l’hôpital nommé « Novo-Ekaterinenskaya », et maintenant c’est l’Hôpital de la ville No 24 .
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 09:53:21 PM by Reco »