Author Topic: Gay French Kings  (Read 37114 times)

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2010, 01:59:54 PM »
Hard to say how close MA and Polignac went beyond "friendship". They could have experiemented with it, but MA was a very sentimental woman who loved close friendshipwith women. I think it was exergerated by those who lampooned the Royal Family. Nonethess the "friendship" gave the Polignacs great influence and postion there is no doubt.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2010, 07:01:10 AM »
It has always seemed to me that the French were used to sexual favorites of kings exercising power and influence and weren't able to understand such a relationship in any other tems.  Lamballe & Polignac were favorites of the Queen; favorites exercise power through sexual relationships; therefore Lamballe & Polignac were sleeping with the Queen - a nice little closed circle of logic.  It also had the additional attraction to her enemies of showing Marie Antoinette was 'unnatural' and thus even more scandalous than if she had taken a male lover. 

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2010, 12:32:11 PM »
She had a male lover in the dashing Swedish Count Fersen. At least Lambelle's friendship with the Queen was much purer, she remained loyal and died for it. The same cannot be said of Polignac...

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2010, 06:34:45 AM »
Quote
She had a male lover in the dashing Swedish Count Fersen.

I always got the impression that the relationship with Fersen (whatever it was; some seem to feel it was platonic, some not) never had the high public profile of Marie Antoinette's female relationships.  Was this the case? 

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2010, 07:53:19 AM »
I always got the impression that the relationship with Fersen (whatever it was; some seem to feel it was platonic, some not) never had the high public profile of Marie Antoinette's female relationships.  Was this the case?  

I've read that Fersen wasn't in the pamphlets so it's indeed likely that said relationship wasn't high-profile and/or given much attention by her enemies compared to her female favorites.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 07:59:06 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2010, 11:02:13 AM »
The fact that she and Count Farsen were lovers weren't as good propaganda against her, so it was played down in favour of the lalleged lesbian loves of the Queen.

count guiramov

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2010, 03:02:52 PM »
The Polignac and Fersen are two diffferent things in the heart of the Queen. A word on it: when the Polignac came back in France in 1815, la duchesse d'Angoulême did not want to meet them. She woulh have granted any position to the Beau comte de Fersen. He was the last romantic lover but also the last chevalier servant to her maman.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2010, 03:22:14 PM »
I heard that Therese-Marie wasn't too keen on meeting her mother's Swedish lover, he found her expression cold in their meeting.

count guiramov

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2010, 01:18:43 AM »
Mr. Lowe get it right here;
Madame Royale was'nt cold at all. The princess was according to Boigne,Vigée-Lebrun or Campan memoirs 'a tender sweet thing'. She could'nt 'understand' the liaison between Axel and her mother. La duchesse d'Angoulême was different. She was that hommasse (manly) lady with manly voice and resentment in her eyes. Back in France in 1815, that woman cried a lot behind close curtains. Even if ostalgia was very painfull  she was'nt scare to meet old friend from Versailles specially the one who had served so sincerely her mother.  The duchess could'nt possibly meet Fersen has he has been massacred in 1810 in his native Sweden.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2010, 11:35:52 AM »
Well...I read he managed to see her once in Austria and another in France. She wasn't cold to him just proper, but the poor man was trying to find the mother in daughter. Of course she seemed cold to him.

count guiramov

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2010, 11:41:56 AM »
I think we better stop the Fersen-d'Angoulême conversation here because the subject of the post is: the homosexuality or gayness of the king of France or the Queen of France. On that subject I have no information. Therefore have a good one.

An Ard Rí

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2010, 10:29:19 AM »
There are strong rumours surrounding the sexuality of Philippe II Auguste & Henri III & Louis XIII,I guess we will never know how true they are  ;)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2010, 02:53:06 PM »
The suggestion that Richard I of England was homosexual dates from as recently as 1948, according to the recent academic biography by John Gillingham, so if the idea that Philip Augustus was also homosexual was based on an alleged affair with him, then there is no evidence.

Various authors note that men in medieval times frequently shared beds - Antony Bridge mentions a stained glass window in Cologne Cathedral dating from, I think, the 1220s, showing the Three Wise Men in the same bed when God appears to them to tell them not to return to Herod's court. In the 15th century, the promiscuously heterosexual Edward IV became so pally with Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, that he invited him to share his bed as a mark of favour. Somerset never married but had an illegitimate son who was the ancestor of the current dukes of Beaufort.

More recently, you get married men writing letters to one another in terms that sound distinctly peculiar today. For instance, Margaret Fitzherbert, in a biography of the writer and traveller Aubrey Herbert, who died about 1923, quotes a letter to Herbert from his lifelong friend, Sir Mark Sykes, which begins, 'My sweet Aubrey'. Both were married with several children and Fitzherbert discounts any suggestion of homosexuality. Incidentally, Sykes was in the news recently. He died in 1919 of Spanish 'flu, and his descendants agreed to have him exhumed in the hope of isolaying the virus (it was apparently crucial that he was buried in a lead coffin).


Ann

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2010, 06:03:53 PM »
I think the problem with Richard I was that he was not particularly lusty with women (compare that with his father and grandfather) and was not overly keen in marriage. If you couple that with sharing a bed with the French King Philip Augustus, you can see what it leads to. However I think Philip Augustus was bisexual since he did have various affairs with women.

An Ard Rí

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Re: Gay French Kings
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2010, 07:16:14 AM »
I think the problem with Richard I was that he was not particularly lusty with women (compare that with his father and grandfather) and was not overly keen in marriage. If you couple that with sharing a bed with the French King Philip Augustus, you can see what it leads to. However I think Philip Augustus was bisexual since he did have various affairs with women.

Little wonder that Richards neglected wife & queen,Berengaria de Navarre turned to religion.

Philippe II Auguste treated his second wife Ingeborg of Denmark in an appalling manner .