King George III, his Queen Charlotte and their family

[Zanthia]

I have seen it, but it's at least 6 years ago. I think I was in my late teens, but I loved it. Sarah was my favourite of the sisters, and I was certain that she would marry the king. I felt so sorry for her when her family just wanted to marry her off as quickly as possible, when it did'nt worked out with the king.

And it was a little wierd to see "Richard" (Clive Swift, who played George II) without Hyacinth

[Marc]

If you look at Queen Alexandra's ancestors you will see that she is almost 100% German by blood...the other thing was that she was Danish princess(Denmark ruled for centuries by German dinasty) and that she didn't like Germans...but lets get on topic!

[Marc]

I also read that George III made his choice because he dreaded the possibility of introducing mental instability to the bloodline...

[Prince_Lieven]

A Hanoverian topic!!!  Thanks Marc!!

Well, she was never considered a real potential bride, but George was completely besotted with the Duke of Richmond's daughter, Lady Sarah Lennox, a direct descendant of King Charles II. His government, however, felt that, quite apart from the difference in status, the fact that Sarah's sister Caroline was related by marriage to political radical Charles James Fox was enough to discount her as a potential queen of Britain. George was known to blush whenever Sarah's name was mentioned.

has anyone else seen the miniseries on the lennox sisters? it's fascinating! for a while i didn't even think it was true, it was just too good.

actually, caroline was not related by marriage but was the mother of charles james fox. but at the time when george's marriage was considered, charles james was young and unimportant. more important was his father, caroline's husband and sarah's brother in law, henry fox, a member of the cabinet and secretary of state.

sarah ended up marrying someone else, divorcing, subject of scandal and then marrying george napier, an impoverished soldier. they had eight children, including charles james napier, an important british general in india. (http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/people/napier.htm)

I didn't see it, but I know it was based on Stella Tillyard's book 'the Aristocrats', which I tried to read but gave up before long - Tillyard (who also wrote about George III and his siblings) is an extremely dull story teller, IMHO.

Most Hanoverian monarchs seemed to select their brides as if they were choosing just as Elector of Hanover, not king of England. Caroline of Brandenburg-Ansbach, George III's grandmother, was the daughter of a margrave - how high ranking is that? Queen Charlotte, as already said, didn't have a lot of kingly blood. Caroline of Brunswick had an impeccable pedigree - just about all that can be said about her as a potential queen. 

[Kimberly]

Oh dear, I wondered when Tillyard was going to make an appearance Dreadfully dull.

[palatine]

The first four Georges had to marry Protestants to keep Great Britain and had to marry daughters of rulers (petty or great) to keep Hanover.  Hanover gave them a small independent income, an army they could deploy at will, and somewhere to go if the exiled Stuarts drove them out.  There were reasons why they didn't and/or couldn’t intermarry with Swedish and Danish royals which I will reserve for reasons of space, so German royals were the only game in town for a long, long, time.

Caroline of Ansbach was chosen as George II’s bride because she was the Protestant daughter of a ruler and because she was lovely, healthy, smart as a whip, and too well-bred to emulate his mother's deplorable hijinks.  The Hanoverians realized that George needed a loving, decisive, and tactful wife; they could have looked higher for a bride for him, but they realized that she was the perfect choice.  She had other options:  Archduke Charles, later Emperor Charles VI, wanted to marry her, but she didn’t want to become a Catholic.

The wives of Frederick, Prince of Wales, George III, and George IV were not chosen so thoughtfully.  Frederick’s wife was chosen in a hurry because it was believed that he might run away and marry Lady Diana Spencer (a granddaughter of Sarah Churchill, Dowager Duchess of Marlborough) who was dynastically unsuitable.  George III’s bride was chosen by his mother, who was not one of the great thinkers of her own, or any other, time.  George IV was forced to marry in a hurry so that he could have his debts paid.  He was given a choice between a niece of his father and a niece of his mother; he didn’t want either, for he was madly in love with Maria Fitzherbert, whom he had secretly (but illegally) married.  He chose Caroline of Brunswick in haste and repented at leisure.

If you're looking for a good book about Lady Sarah Lennox, you should read Dinah Lampitt's novel about her, As Shadows Haunting.  It's not a traditional historical novel; there's time travel involved as well as a parallel story, but it's fairly well researched and is a lot more engaging than Tillyard's biography.

[basilforever]

If you look at Queen Alexandra's ancestors you will see that she is almost 100% German by blood...the other thing was that she was Danish princess(Denmark ruled for centuries by German dinasty) and that she didn't like Germans...but lets get on topic!

QA would hate you to say that, she may have had some German blood but she was Danish through and through and even said in public to people she hardly knew - ''I hate the Germans!"

[basilforever]

I also read that George III made his choice because he dreaded the possibility of introducing mental instability to the bloodline...

Oh but he did that himself with his Porphyria.  But it would possibly have been much worse if he had married an insane woman or one with mental problems in her family's background. 

[basilforever]

Was George III married to Hannah Lightfoot?

I cannot understand why anyone would allege such a thing just out of nowhere?

She was a Quakeress and daughter of a Shoemaker?! This whole rumour/conspiracy theory is as strange and hard to believe as Prince Eddy secretly marrying Annie Crook.

I have read the articles on Wikipedia that say it is a load of rubbish and impossible for them to have had children, etc. But I don't know if I can trust Wikipedia on this issue. 

They were alleged to have had three children. And as the Royal Marriages Act was not in existence back then, the marriage and the children would have been legitimate and the the children with Hannah would have been the rightful heirs to the throne.

Does anyone believe this marriage and associated theories are true?

On this page it seems to list it as an almost fact that George III married Hannah Lightfoot with the exact date given.

http://www3.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal?royal00130

There is a marriage certificate, supposedly not genuine, and it is impounded in the Royal Archives at Windsor and no one is allowed to examine it. Sounds very suspicious!

Notes:
George is alleged to have married Hannah in secret, but the documents relating
to tyhe marriage have been impounded since 1866. They are now in the Royal
Archives at Windsor. She was the daughter of a Wapping Shoemaker and is said
to have born him three children.

[ilyala]

I didn't see it, but I know it was based on Stella Tillyard's book 'the Aristocrats', which I tried to read but gave up before long - Tillyard (who also wrote about George III and his siblings) is an extremely dull story teller, IMHO.

Most Hanoverian monarchs seemed to select their brides as if they were choosing just as Elector of Hanover, not king of England. Caroline of Brandenburg-Ansbach, George III's grandmother, was the daughter of a margrave - how high ranking is that? Queen Charlotte, as already said, didn't have a lot of kingly blood. Caroline of Brunswick had an impeccable pedigree - just about all that can be said about her as a potential queen. 

i haven't read the book but the miniseries is great. i highly recommend it.

we must remember that the first two georges were hannoverian. george 1st was 54 years old when he became king. i believe he became aware of the possibility when he was around 40. i also believe he was already married by then (if not already divorced - he caught his wife cheating on him). so you really couldn't have expected him to marry as a king of england.

george 2nd got married in 1705. that was 10 years before his father became king, his grandmother was still alive (and she was the actual heir) and considerring the political instability of the british system at the time (the jacobites were still strong) i don't think he advertised too much on the marriage market: 'i could be king of england so give me a good bride'.

the first of the hannoverian dynasty to actually marry as a possible king was prince frederick. he had a dreadful relationship with his father so i doubt his father tried too hard to give him a good bride.  however augusta of saxe-gotha was of noble enough birth...

[Prince_Lieven]

I know all about George I and II's situations when they married, ilyala - I was just commenting that it was odd that they seemingly never considered anyone who wasn't German ('they' being all of the Hanoverian monarchs). I know they had to marry Protestants, but the Danes and Swedes were Protestants too. Then again, after Princess Caroline Matilda's bad experience, they probably wanted to steer clear of that family!

[Marc]

Yes,true,Queen Alexandra felt that she was Danish from top to toe,but her ony ancestor who was NOT German from the 17th century was Countess Charlotte Sibylla of Ahlefeld who was born in 1672 in Copenhagen and was married to a german Count Georg Ludwig zu Solms-Roedelheim...the rest of her her ancestors were completly German,so if she didn't like it,that's other thing but she is by fact 99% of German stock(I mean just by blood),no mather how much she felt Danish...

[basilforever]

I don't know that much about Queen Alexandra's blood background, but she and her family were all of Danish nationality and devoted to Denmark, so I guess that's more important.

I haven't received any reply to my Hannah Lightfoot and George III questions, does anyone know anything more about it?

[ilyala]

I know all about George I and II's situations when they married, ilyala - I was just commenting that it was odd that they seemingly never considered anyone who wasn't German ('they' being all of the Hanoverian monarchs). I know they had to marry Protestants, but the Danes and Swedes were Protestants too. Then again, after Princess Caroline Matilda's bad experience, they probably wanted to steer clear of that family!

well, that could have been because they were german not only in blood but as people. as long as german princesses were available they probably didn't bother to look elsewhere.

george 1st and george 2nd i believe didn't bother to speak english. that says a lot. they probably lived and breathed german.

[basilforever]

I think George II could speak English, but I'm not totally sure about that. 

I think when one becomes King of a place one feels some concern and custodianship of it, so they would not have lived and breathed just German entirely. I think some part of them must have felt connected to Britain, well at least I hope so.