Author Topic: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995  (Read 170121 times)

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Michelle

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2004, 11:51:44 PM »
Um, it's just a cartoon.  I'm sure that if it had never been made, I would NEVER have learned about NAOTMAA.  I was in fourth grade and I've been interested ever since!  Infact, it's my favorite cartoon movie of all time!  Should "The Diary of Anne Frank" not have been made into a movie either?  That's what got many people aware of the Holocaust.  Including myself.  I was fascinated with the Holocaust at one point (not morbidly, though) before my obsession with the Romanovs kicked in.  These kinds of movies bring attention to the actual history because it converts little kids into potential Romanov lovers--thereby keeping the memory alive, just like Anne Frank keeps the memory of the Holocaust alive.  Granted Anne Frank wasn't made a cartoon, but Anastasia still served the same purpose.  Little kids can be introduced to the Romanovs in this way, and if they really want to know more, they can start learning the real story when they're old enough to handle the letdown that the history was much more tragic than the cartoon.  But hey--it's gets them intrigued.

As to Lisa's statement: Well of course I respect the Imperial Family MUCH more than ANY filmaker!  I'm grateful that they made such a movie which inspired many young Romanov fans like myself, but I don't revere them like I do the family!  

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2004, 12:08:35 AM »
Michelle: only someone as obviously young as yourself would make such an inane remark to my post as "um, it's only a cartoon". I can guarantee you, Michelle, if anyone had done to Anne Frank what those people at Fox did to Anastasia, we would still be hearing about it. "The Diary of Anne Frank" was made into both a play and a theatrical film and at no time was a fairy tale injected with outright lies a part of the equation. Never. So, I really don't think your analogy is appropriate.

I do get that you and others became interested in the Imperial Family as a result of what I consider to be a revolting film. I'm not displeased with your interest. I am disappointed that you are so cavalier and dismissive of the feelings of other people. Again, this is likely to improve with age. But, whether you "um" like it or not, the cartoon did hurt her family very deeply and it is bordering on insensitive for you to dismiss everyone not enamored of the cartoon. I am willing to grant that many who loved the cartoon were likely ignorant at the time of the facts and that some maybe later bothered to find out the real facts.

The filmmakers took entire portions of the Alexander Palace website and posted it on the film's website as their own. I was told by these people - hired by Fox - that it was "um, only a cartoon" too but it seems the laws of the US state differently, and you are not allowed to actually steal someone's work this way. They had to take it down, and though we spent our own money on legal fees to get it  done, no one ever bother ed to apologize or to compensate us for the theft. They used the theft to promote their - cartoon".

Michelle

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2004, 12:40:27 AM »
Well, I suppose you are right, Lisa, someone of my age of 17, is just an inane little idiot, aren't they?  Thank you for that.  Truly appreciated!  *gags*  I'm sorry that it hurt her family.  And I'll have you know that I am most certainly NOT "dismissive" to people's feelings!!  I love this family dearly!  And I'M sorry that you are offended that I happen to (God forbid, OH MY!!!! :o) LIKE that movie!  I should be put to death!!  

I'm glad YOU'RE so non-judgmental yourself, there!!  

And I will be non-"dismissive" and apologize to these people on this board who hate this bickering ;)


Dashkova

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2004, 09:33:12 AM »
Hmmm...this is an interesting thread.  I was just thinking: There was no Anastasia cartoon when I became interested in this subject.  I was and remain someone much more interested in the printed word than in cinema, and so it was the brilliantly crafted Massie and Kurth books (though I was grown when the latter was released) that sparked my interest.

Interestingly (to me, anyway), when I became unconvinced of AA's claim (and posted this on a message board), Mr. Kurth responded with great rudeness and vulgarity. Repeatedly.  

It was a shocking moment for me! But you know, I still love his books and continue to hold dear the memories of my youth. If his book had not been so well written, and the first of  many reads on the subject, I might not feel this way.

Of course there was the old Anastasia film (Bergman, Brynner & Company), and that did create a great deal of interest (A little before my time, tho'!).  However it is presented, the Anastastia myth is irresistable to most.  At the same time, Massie's N&A had also been made.

As usual, I preferred the book and try very hard to avoid "historical" movies as they are consistently inaccurate, bordering on the irresponsible, and an insult to anyone who either takes seriously history and/or *enjoys* history.

It is sad that the weak Fox film was the vehicle the current young generation had most available to learn about the Romanovs (indeed, the first and only look at Russian history for many...scary thought!).

Disney did the same thing to Pocahontas. Hollywood has no business in history. None.  They are too stupid for that.

Here is my constant hope:  That after seeing the film, viewers new to the subject will want to read everything they can get their hands on, become better informed, and then write to Fox condeming the film!

However, and this is the biggest difficulty, one cannot help *how* one is introduced to a favorite subject and since it is a topic that becomes beloved, one can only look back at the original experience with fondness.  I think that's mostly what we're hearing from young members.  I don't believe anymore in AA's claims, and many no doubt were hurt by those claims (including AA!), but it's where I began with this, and so there are feelings of curiosity and excitement associated with those memories.

I *do* think it's important not to be too sensitive when someone who knows certain unpleasant truths about the film, other films, books, or even Charlottesville ;) points them out.  I consider it good, practical, and important information to have (and I'm grateful for it!), and don't have to associate the new info with my old memories.

Maybe this comes with maturity (or maybe old age;))

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Dashkova »

Pravoslavnaya

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2004, 11:02:24 AM »
In an ideal world, we wouldn't let controversial subjects render us uncivil to each other, and in a flawed world where we sometimes do forget ourselves it is best to forgive -- sometimes even before people ask for forgiveness.

People very often get inspired by history and embroider upon it; the quirks are the nature of the creative beast.  Whether it's a movie like this one (a pioneering effort in some aspects of animation) or an historical novel about any appealing figure, there is always going to be something left out, something changed in the name of artistic vision, and so on.  And sometimes there will be rank dishonesty behind the scenes.  Some people will like stuff, some people won't.    A recent discussion of 'The Snow Mountain' comes to mind.  I myself have filtered out many a creative pipedream too weak to pursue in the end.


Was this movie supposed to be a representation of the truth?  By no means.   But claimants who steal the identities of the two slain children who were not found with the rest of their family make me a lot more concerned than art that comes and goes.  

I am sorry, Bob and Lisa, to hear about your bad experiences connected with this film.  

otma_gal3

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2004, 11:04:21 AM »
 :o Oh dear, I'm so sorry I made a fight here! I really hope I didn't offend anyone. I'm only 13 and a half, I was just wondering what everyone thought of the song. I'm really, really, REALLY sorry! I feel it's my fault that I started the bickering, because I started the topic. so sorry............ :'(

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2004, 11:18:03 AM »
From the New York Times:
November 9, 1997, Sunday

After the Revolution, Comes 'Anastasia' the Cartoon
By CAREY GOLDBERG (NYT)
POOR ANASTASIA: murdered by the Bolsheviks with the rest of the Romanov royal family in 1918; impersonated by a bevy of pretenders in the years to follow; exploited by Hollywood as a 1956 star vehicle for Ingrid Bergman, and later for Amy Irving, in a mini-series that seemed to drag on almost as long as the Communist regime.

And now, what many people will see as her final indignity: caricatured into a feisty animated orphan in a musical extravaganza, ''Anastasia,'' opening on Friday. It features Rasputin as a comically decomposing wizard; Bartok, a singing albino bat, and Pooka, a puppy (which must have been someone's little joke, because it sounds an awful lot like pook, a mild Russian vulgarity).



Not to get all politically huffy about a feature-length cartoon that is mainly meant to captivate children and give them a tantalizing sip of history.

Surely there was enough fuss over other attempts to animate history: Pocahontas's Barbie Doll build and kiss with Captain John Smith, the cuddly Quasimodo in ''The Hunchback of Notre Dame,'' the perceived negative stereotypes of Arabs in ''Aladdin'' and the Disney rewrite of myth to make Hercules kill Medusa and the Minotaur.

And surely, too, 20th Century Fox should be encouraged in this, its first major animated feature, which was created by the Disney defectors Don Bluth and Gary Goldman (''An American Tail,'' ''The Land Before Time''), at its new animation studio in Arizona. The $100 million venture promises to provide competition to the longstanding Disney ducktatorship. (Disney is rereleasing ''The Little Mermaid'' on Friday.)

But before Anastasia starts gathering points for its three-dimensional renditions of the Winter Palace in St. Petersburg or its bird's-eye view of Paris, it seems fair to hear some gentle words of misgiving from a few true lovers of Russian history.

For as they see it, ''Anastasia'' goes a step beyond ''Pocahontas.'' It cracks a new level of ahistoricity, using the tragedy of the murdered Russian czarina as little more than back story -- the Revolution is over by the time the opening credits roll -- for the usual cartoon concoction of romance, adventure and the battle between good and evil, complete with the requisite happy ending and a shopping spree at Chanel.

In the new ''Anastasia,'' ''the history is completely wrong, and that is upsetting,'' said Suzanne Massie, author of several books on Russian history and culture, including ''Land of the Firebird.''

''I happen to think it's terribly important to have Russian history represented at least, if you will, spiritually correctly,'' she said, ''because it has been so falsified for so many years. And my experience of 30 years of trying to deal with this is that we are absolutely fraught with stereotypes in the West about Russian history.''

IF ''ANASTASIA'' IS ANY INDICATION of where things are going in the world of historically inspired movies, said Bob Atchison, a Web-page designer and Russian history enthusiast, ''The next thing they're going to do is, 'Anne Frank moves to Orlando and opens a crocodile farm with a guy named Mort.' ''

Those complaining had only seen the movie's trailer and a description of the plot. But that was enough to disturb them.

Repeated exploitation of Anastasia's romantic tale seems inevitable, however, so inevitable that many who might be offended the most -- Romanov descendants -- seem to accept it with equanimity.

The new movie ''just used the name and made it into a total fantasy,'' said Marina Beadleston, whose great-uncle was the murdered Czar Nicholas II. ''The thing is, that's fine so long as somewhere a history book and parents correct it to give how it really happened.''

She never ceases to be amazed, she added, by ''the romance people feel about the Russian royal family.

''I don't know why it is,'' she said. ''They don't have it about the English royal family or the French. It's about the Russians.''

Which is exactly what 20th Century Fox is banking on with its $53 million film -- that the magic of the Anastasia name and concept will prove as potent as, say, the roar of Disney's ''Lion King.'' ''Anastasia'' is Fox's first attempt to create a cartoon film that like ''Aladdin'' or ''Beauty and the Beast'' is so successful as a movie that it rises above the animated category and is seen simply as a blockbuster.

''We're shooting for all the bananas, all the marbles, all the -- something,'' said Bill Mechanic, chairman of Fox Filmed Entertainment.

Mr. Goldman, the film's co-director and co-producer, acknowledges that ''Anastasia'' uses history only as a starting point: ''It's a fairy tale based on 'What if?' '' he said.

The filmmakers, he added, took the basic facts of the Romanovs' demise and the Russian Revolution and asked, ''What if this girl escaped, and what would have happened to her?''

They decided, he said, that the movie was going to be ''a family thing about a search for your family and strong family values'' as well as ''a self-discovery story, a story that everyone in life goes through.''

Those tempted to interrupt and exclaim ''Anastasia and her family were dead! Dead! She had no self to discover!'' should perhaps be reminded that the true power of the Anastasia myth has always been wishful thinking, the deep desire to undo the unspeakably bloody history of the Russian Revolution -- at least in the person of one princess.

So if the cartoon has the young princess (with the voice of Meg Ryan) meeting up with a handsome young con man (John Cusack) who persuades her to pretend to be the lost czarina, not knowing she really is the lost czarina, is it really much more farfetched than the real-life assertions of the best-known pretender, Anna Anderson, that she was Anastasia even though she could not speak Russian?

In response to the coming film, Mr. Atchison, the Web-page designer, has created a not-for-profit Web page (www.pallasweb.com/anastasia) that offers readers the real story of Anastasia, including mention of recent DNA and forensic testing that has solved much of the mystery. The tests, technologically possible only in this decade, established, to the satisfaction of all but the most determined of conspiracy theorists, that her body was among those of her family unearthed in Yekaterinburg and that Anna Anderson was, in fact, a Polish factory worker.

Mr. Atchison and other Russian-history enthusiasts acknowledge a certain trade-off here. ''If 900,000 kids go to 'Anastasia' and of that, 10,000 kids become really interested in Russian history and go on and find the truth and pursue it, it's worth it,'' he said. ''But on the other hand, we create 890,000 people in the United States who are actually going to believe this story is true.''

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2004, 12:56:42 PM »
By the way, it's the 890,000 who believe the false history and those who do not bother to learn more that worry me. That and the disrespect shown by the filmmakers to the real Anastasia.

Michelle, I meant no disrespect to you or to any other younger person reading this thread. What I meant is that at a young age, it's hard for you to see how very hurtful this is, so I don't expect you to get what I'm saying. I don't believe you are anything but an intelligent young lady. So, go out there and study this subject for 40 years - and tell me what you think then, okay? It's bound to be different than now. Hopefully, I will learn something in this time, too, so that we will have notes to compare. Deal?

Offline Vive_HIH_Aleksey

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2004, 03:27:24 PM »
I am not certain what I should say, if anything, here. Thanks to the forum admin for posting that article.

Lisa, you remind me of someone I know online by the name of Rosie. She is... well, the best I can do to describe her is "artistically challenged." I'm not sure how to best explain that to you without totally digressing from this topic, so I will not do that. If you or anyone else wants to know the meaning of this, let me know and I will explain.

I'm not as young as most people here, but I admit to having a weakness for Grimm's Fairy Tales, mind you the original ones, you know, like in the original Cinderella the stepsisters had their toe and heel cut off to fit in the shoe, and their eyes were pecked out at the end by birds (the tales were collected primarily for adults anyway). Does that make me... less mature? LOL I'm certain you weren't talking about me when you made the assumption that a lot of people here are young. I mean, granted, I am young, but not THAT young and not that immature as to let things like this movie cloud my judgement.

Now that I read your last post, I simply say this. You are extremely knowledgable in the history field, and I am extremely knowledgable in the art field. You're first and foremost a historian, and so of course I understand how you feel when you see inaccurate movies like Brraveheart and such. I am first and foremost an artist. I paint pictures with words and try to get the readers to see and feel what is happening, in their minds and in their hearts. Sometimes events in history are romanticized, even if it is something more recent than we would like it to be. Take Princess Di for example.

I don't doubt that the family was horrified with this movie, in fact I'm reminded of a line from the 1956 version of the movie that I can really tell how the Romanov family must have felt when this movie came out.

"You are making vulgar and sentimental use of an episode which is for me a great personal sorrow."

Michelle I believe mentioned Anne Frank. Well, let's go a bit further back, to someone more romanticized and shrouded in mystery than her OR the Romanovs:

King Arthur.

Most historians agree he existed, right? Of course history became the legend/myth that it is now. So it's hard to seperate the myth from the real person. The movie that is out now attempts to delve into it, however it is grossly inaccurate. What historical drama is? My history teacher in high school says the most historically accurate film he's ever seen was Elizabeth, but even that has flaws.

And what about William Wallace in Braveheart? LOLOLOL to have the Battle of Stirling Bridge... without a bridge? Ridiculous. But the heroism is there.

Bottom line, if historical drama were always completely accurate, wouldn't they be more termed as documentaries? Ghosts of the Abyss wasn't as popular as Titanic, was it?

As for the song being "worthy," why don't YOU try playing two melodies at once plus a bass line with the background melody having key changes in every measure. It's the hardest piece I've ever known. I've been practicing it since 2000 and I still can't get it.

My Heart Will Go On is easy though, and very haunting. That song truly speaks of ocean waves (without the words) if you listen closely enough. But I digress again! Slap me LOL why did I even mention that one?
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Michelle

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2004, 04:37:55 PM »
Vive Aleksey and NAOTMAA:  VERY well said, and I applaud you two greatly!  Infact, NAOTMAA, maybe that little girl in the bookstore was me LOL!! :D  That touching experience you shared with us all sounds almost EXACTLY how I felt once I saw the cartoon; I absolutely HAD to get my hands on everything that had to do with the Romanovs--and I continue to do so as I have quite an extensive collection of books on the subject! :D :)  And I also thoroughly enjoy reading all the posts on this site (and other sites), even if sometimes we may disagree on subjects.  The whole story IS tremendously tragic.  I have read and looked at tons of pictues of the family and I now feel that I actually did know them.  And it saddens me that I will never get to actually meet them :'(

......And it all started with a cartoon.

JaneEyre5381

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2004, 04:45:17 PM »
My little sister watched the movie endlessly in '98, and even memorized the songs, one of which was "once Upon A December".  She was three years old then, and the story was absolutely fascinating to her.  She's now almost nine years old, but any mention of Anastasia's name brings her memories of childhood.  I also use that particular movie to get her interested in the Family, and according to my Grams, Becky loves looking at "Nicholas And Alexandra:  The Family Albums".  She may rmember nothing else, but she certainly does remember the little girl by the name of Anastasia who lived in Russia and was a Grand Duchess.  The movie helped her associate, and hopefully when she's older she'll be able toseperate the fact from fairy tales.

Dasha

Offline Lanie

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2004, 04:51:08 PM »
The movie came out when I was 11 and I enjoyed it... and later I picked up Nicholas & Alexandra at the library (my mom was confused by my precociousness!).  So I guess I could say that "Anastasia" brought me into the world of the Romanovs though I'd probably get interested in them somehow since I've always been into history and royalty. :)

I see it as a cartoon and do think it's vile what Fox did...but doesn't surprise me; Fox and Disney seem very unscrupulous!   I was babysitting a little girl and we watched it and I told her the real story...and she burst into tears.  Oops.  But then I let her borrow Anastasia's Album and I believe she's still "into" them and that was, gee, five years ago or so.  When I hear people MY age talking about ir (or close to my age) I correct them.  I've gotten quite a few people from my old high school interested in the REAL story which I suppose is a good thing since no one in general seems to like history in their teens (at least, not people I know, sad).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lanie »

Offline Vive_HIH_Aleksey

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2004, 05:06:31 PM »
LOL so you see what I mean Lanie? LOL

You could say that this movie should not have been made PERIOD, but then not as many of us would be here, would we?

I first fell in love with the Romanovs because of a documentary when I was 8, but it wasn't till 7-8 years later that I was reminded of them because of this movie.

This movie wouldn't have been as effectful without its music. And I don't mean its songs. If it had an absolutely atrocious score, I would have regretted buying it and turned it off immediately. For me, it's all about the score. That's why I fell in love with The Ten Commandments LOL which is ALSO big time inaccurate and dramatized. The songs, most of them were simply Okay, but the three that stood out in my mind are Once Upon A December, the reprise of the song Learn To Do It (stupid stupid title IMHO lol), and the opening "A Rumor In S.t Petersburg." The rest were simply... eh, in my opinion.

Perhaps that is why it did not win Best Original Musical/Comedy Score, because they include the songs with that. Hm, at least I think so. I'll have to ask Christian Clemmenson (owner of www.filmtracks.com).

I remember watching this in my humanities class (which was taught by our French teacher) and my friend Jason said Hey, this is a fairy tale and it's set in France! (we were working on fairy tales at the time) and I said AND it's based on a true story! Everyone looked at me like I was nuts, and I said It is! and I had photos of her with me, I showed them but no one cared LOL. They liked the movie though.

Our school stunk big time. There was a girl who graduated in the top ten of our class, as I believe, and she did not know what a VERB was. I wouldn't be surprised if she still doesn't. Not to mention, in a fill-in-the-blank part of our English mid-term (in which we covered Le Morte d'Arthur, which my teacher pronounced wrong all the time and Julius Caesar by Shakespeare) she put "Lancelot" fell in love with "CALPURNIA." Everyone laughed when that answer was revealed naturally.

I digress LOL sorry.

I watched this with my niece and since she was old enough I told her the true story. At first she didn't believe me but when I showed photos then she was fascinated. Now of course she is more concerned with Eminem.

However I did manage to get a little girl, my mom's friend's granddaughter, interested by watching that movie. However, since she was 3 or 4, I did not DARE tell her what really happened! I simply said, You know, this girl was real. And I showed her photos, but did not say what really happened to her. At that age, you just can't.
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Michelle

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2004, 05:25:18 PM »
Quote

Lisa wasn't calling you an "insane little idiot."


Just for the record, Lisa didn't call me "insane."  She called me "inane."  However, it doesn't really matter anymore.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2004, 06:14:01 PM »
Just for the record, I did not. Or rather, please show me where I said this, because I don't recall calling you a name - inane or insane, or whatever.

I have tried to politely reply to you as best I can. It seems no matter what I say, you appear to take offense. I believe the only remark intended for you personally is that I am disappointed by your lack of compassion for others. I'll stand behind that. Maybe you are more compassionate than you've shown on this board. I am willing to keep an open mind.