Author Topic: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995  (Read 173059 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #240 on: October 05, 2006, 12:03:44 PM »
This is a very interesting debate. Filmakers are never going to be responsible, as some call it, and make films that accuratly represent history, or stop making films that don't. They are there for the money, and the audience, and apparently distorted history sells. I guess there is never enough fiction to just make a movie about that, although it makes you wonder why not? As for making a history film accurate to history for kids, that would just be a flop. Adults ( read this as if it were in bold/italic), yawn often when they hear the word history. If you know that, just think of what it is like for kids. Most of them these days are so fed on anything other than books or serious stuff it isn't funny. I saw this movie when I was 11, but I never watched TV or videos until I was eight, and I was always more fond of books than other forms of entertainment. That or the outdoors os much better for kids than TV and such things in my opinion, but enough of that.

This movie did get many interested who never would have been otherwise. It got their interest in ways that any other way of representing history did not. I think that rather than not make people think about history, this film makes them think about it. It brings kids history through a meduim that they are infintely more familiar with than a book. They might see it and wonder what happened next, and since there is no sequel to this, then they might be interested enough to go pick up a book and start looking at it, or hopefully reading it. Even if it's that Royal Diaries Series which is not that accurate, it is better than nothing. So, the movie gave them the spark to perhaps be interested further. I think it's natural for kids to be interested in what happens next in stories, and movies. At least, I always was, and given this natural urge kids will want to go out and find out more, even if they discover Anastasia didn't survive.

I think the movie should have been more inconclusive to make more kids wonder about what sort of sequel could this story have had? As well, sometimes it kids know it is fictional  they will want to know the real story, and go out and try to discover it. That is what happened to me, but I was interested in the Romanovs before the movie came out because I saw the cover of Anastasia's Album and that girl sitting there in that white dress really intrigued me. Of course, some kids will just watch it and move on to other mindless crap. So, I think movies like this have some relevance in getting kids more interested in history in a way they understand. If the movie wasn't fictional, there woudn't be the further impetus to seek the real story out. So while movies should be respectful, having some elements of fiction might inrigue kids further.

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #241 on: October 05, 2006, 04:29:10 PM »
[  Do children watch The Little Mermaid and believe there really is an Ariel out there?xx
[/quote]

Er um.  I had my photo taken with Ariel a few weeks ago.  I know she's really out there!   

And please everyone - Anastasia was an animated film, not a CARTOON ....

There is a major difference.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #242 on: October 05, 2006, 04:32:33 PM »
This is a very interesting debate. Filmakers are never going to be responsible, as some call it, and make films that accuratly represent history, or stop making films that don't. They are there for the money, and the audience, and apparently distorted history sells. I guess there is never enough fiction to just make a movie about that, although it makes you wonder why not? As for making a history film accurate to history for kids, that would just be a flop. Adults ( read this as if it were in bold/italic), yawn often when they hear the word history. If you know that, just think of what it is like for kids. Most of them these days are so fed on anything other than books or serious stuff it isn't funny. I saw this movie when I was 11, but I never watched TV or videos until I was eight, and I was always more fond of books than other forms of entertainment. That or the outdoors os much better for kids than TV and such things in my opinion, but enough of that.

This movie did get many interested who never would have been otherwise. It got their interest in ways that any other way of representing history did not. I think that rather than not make people think about history, this film makes them think about it. It brings kids history through a meduim that they are infintely more familiar with than a book. They might see it and wonder what happened next, and since there is no sequel to this, then they might be interested enough to go pick up a book and start looking at it, or hopefully reading it. Even if it's that Royal Diaries Series which is not that accurate, it is better than nothing. So, the movie gave them the spark to perhaps be interested further. I think it's natural for kids to be interested in what happens next in stories, and movies. At least, I always was, and given this natural urge kids will want to go out and find out more, even if they discover Anastasia didn't survive.

I think the movie should have been more inconclusive to make more kids wonder about what sort of sequel could this story have had? As well, sometimes it kids know it is fictional  they will want to know the real story, and go out and try to discover it. That is what happened to me, but I was interested in the Romanovs before the movie came out because I saw the cover of Anastasia's Album and that girl sitting there in that white dress really intrigued me. Of course, some kids will just watch it and move on to other mindless crap. So, I think movies like this have some relevance in getting kids more interested in history in a way they understand. If the movie wasn't fictional, there woudn't be the further impetus to seek the real story out. So while movies should be respectful, having some elements of fiction might inrigue kids further.

I think it's fine for Marlene to still enjoy the "Anastasia" doll her late husband got for her, I think it's great that so many people got interested in the real Imperial Family as a result of the movie, and I certainly do not expect every film that deals with historical figures to be absolutely accurate. What I think I and others are justifyably objecting to is the craven mixture of truth with  absolute fantasy in the Anastasia cartoon. For example, what if a cartoon were done about Elizabeth I where instead of leading her country to defeat the Spanish Armada, she runs off an becomes a hoochie mama on the 7 seas? Do you think that the British people might just be a touch upset by this? I know many would be. It's diminishing her accomplishments and absolutely untrue.

Getting back to the film, if a film had been done about a Russian "princess" named Svetlana, without Tsar Nicholas, without Rasputin, without the real Anastasia's artwork, I doubt anyone would have been upset. I think the real Anastasia, who behaved impeccably during her imprisionment, deserves more respect than this film shows her. I do object to diminishing her accomplishments and do object to the absolute untruths that the film presents as fact. That does not mean I don't appreciate what it did accomplish and doesn't mean people can't enjoy the soundtrack. I just mean, the girl deserves far more respect than the filmmakers show her.

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #243 on: October 05, 2006, 08:35:53 PM »
Quote
Getting back to the film, if a film had been done about a Russian "princess" named Svetlana, without Tsar Nicholas, without Rasputin, without the real Anastasia's artwork, I doubt anyone would have been upset.

I really agree with this. It wouldn't have been a problem or hurt anyone if they hadn't used anything from real people and twisted it so much.

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #244 on: October 06, 2006, 09:08:57 AM »
I don't see the Anastasia animated film as history - just entertainment.  Literary license is not yet banned by the government.

This is a very interesting debate. Filmakers are never going to be responsible, as some call it, and make films that accuratly represent history, or stop making films that don't. They are there for the money, and the audience, and apparently distorted history sells. I guess there is never enough fiction to just make a movie about that, although it makes you wonder why not? As for making a history film accurate to history for kids, that would just be a flop. Adults ( read this as if it were in bold/italic), yawn often when they hear the word history. If you know that, just think of what it is like for kids. Most of them these days are so fed on anything other than books or serious stuff it isn't funny. I saw this movie when I was 11, but I never watched TV or videos until I was eight, and I was always more fond of books than other forms of entertainment. That or the outdoors os much better for kids than TV and such things in my opinion, but enough of that.

This movie did get many interested who never would have been otherwise. It got their interest in ways that any other way of representing history did not. I think that rather than not make people think about history, this film makes them think about it. It brings kids history through a meduim that they are infintely more familiar with than a book. They might see it and wonder what happened next, and since there is no sequel to this, then they might be interested enough to go pick up a book and start looking at it, or hopefully reading it. Even if it's that Royal Diaries Series which is not that accurate, it is better than nothing. So, the movie gave them the spark to perhaps be interested further. I think it's natural for kids to be interested in what happens next in stories, and movies. At least, I always was, and given this natural urge kids will want to go out and find out more, even if they discover Anastasia didn't survive.

I think the movie should have been more inconclusive to make more kids wonder about what sort of sequel could this story have had? As well, sometimes it kids know it is fictional  they will want to know the real story, and go out and try to discover it. That is what happened to me, but I was interested in the Romanovs before the movie came out because I saw the cover of Anastasia's Album and that girl sitting there in that white dress really intrigued me. Of course, some kids will just watch it and move on to other mindless crap. So, I think movies like this have some relevance in getting kids more interested in history in a way they understand. If the movie wasn't fictional, there woudn't be the further impetus to seek the real story out. So while movies should be respectful, having some elements of fiction might inrigue kids further.

I think it's fine for Marlene to still enjoy the "Anastasia" doll her late husband got for her, I think it's great that so many people got interested in the real Imperial Family as a result of the movie, and I certainly do not expect every film that deals with historical figures to be absolutely accurate. What I think I and others are justifyably objecting to is the craven mixture of truth with  absolute fantasy in the Anastasia cartoon. For example, what if a cartoon were done about Elizabeth I where instead of leading her country to defeat the Spanish Armada, she runs off an becomes a hoochie mama on the 7 seas? Do you think that the British people might just be a touch upset by this? I know many would be. It's diminishing her accomplishments and absolutely untrue.

Getting back to the film, if a film had been done about a Russian "princess" named Svetlana, without Tsar Nicholas, without Rasputin, without the real Anastasia's artwork, I doubt anyone would have been upset. I think the real Anastasia, who behaved impeccably during her imprisionment, deserves more respect than this film shows her. I do object to diminishing her accomplishments and do object to the absolute untruths that the film presents as fact. That does not mean I don't appreciate what it did accomplish and doesn't mean people can't enjoy the soundtrack. I just mean, the girl deserves far more respect than the filmmakers show her.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #245 on: October 06, 2006, 09:52:12 AM »
Well, I think they should have been more respectful, yes. Obviously, they weren't trying to be. If you have a more personal connection with this stuff than I do, it is easy to say that. I understand that point of view. I am not saying the movie was a paragon of movies- no, it wasn't. I think it is more than just entertainment, but it's not just supposed to be history either. I have a inbetween view of the movie. I hope it accomplished more good than bad, although I don't know.

Disney's first movie about Pocahontas disrespcted the memory of Pocahontas, did it not? It was very inaccurate, and I thought it might make a good comparison, as it was a movie actually made rather than a theorotical one. It is true you can take more license with historical legends than historical fact when making movies. But I don't think Anastasia was a legend, even if she died very young, and conclusions about parts of her life might be hazy.

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #246 on: October 06, 2006, 10:24:47 AM »
Having seen the Disney movie on Pocahantas, I can assure that Disney did not denigrate or show disrespect.   (Okay I admit that I am a Disneyphile.) I should add that Disney heroines tend to be rather strong - and this includes the various princesses.

 
Well, I think they should have been more respectful, yes. Obviously, they weren't trying to be. If you have a more personal connection with this stuff than I do, it is easy to say that. I understand that point of view. I am not saying the movie was a paragon of movies- no, it wasn't. I think it is more than just entertainment, but it's not just supposed to be history either. I have a inbetween view of the movie. I hope it accomplished more good than bad, although I don't know.

Disney's first movie about Pocahontas disrespcted the memory of Pocahontas, did it not? It was very inaccurate, and I thought it might make a good comparison, as it was a movie actually made rather than a theorotical one. It is true you can take more license with historical legends than historical fact when making movies. But I don't think Anastasia was a legend, even if she died very young, and conclusions about parts of her life might be hazy.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2006, 10:26:18 AM by Marlene »
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #247 on: October 06, 2006, 10:35:19 AM »
Well, I just didn't think it was accurate, but that's me. I have seen this movie, and I even liked it as a kid. Pocahontas was not a legend though..I think that depicting any historical figure as a legend when they were really flesh and blood fact is inaccurate. Because of the tragic death that Anastasia suffered, it is more disrespectful to her to show her surviving and stuff like that. Hollywood, though, doesn't care about respect of historical figures, but instead, they care about the bottom line.

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #248 on: October 06, 2006, 10:48:59 AM »
There is no doubt that poetic license was taken with Pocahantas - but the character was a positive, strong young woman. 
Well, I just didn't think it was accurate, but that's me. I have seen this movie, and I even liked it as a kid. Pocahontas was not a legend though..I think that depicting any historical figure as a legend when they were really flesh and blood fact is inaccurate. Because of the tragic death that Anastasia suffered, it is more disrespectful to her to show her surviving and stuff like that. Hollywood, though, doesn't care about respect of historical figures, but instead, they care about the bottom line.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Love4Royalty

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #249 on: October 06, 2006, 11:09:28 AM »
I don't think they made it because she was a legend.. just that she was the first Native American to learn English and whatnot.



Quote from: LisaDavidson
I just mean, the girl deserves far more respect than the filmmakers show her.
True.  If I ever do get to be an animator, I will make an animation of the family and what really happened, kay?  ;)

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #250 on: October 06, 2006, 11:13:25 AM »
I don't think that Anastasia was a legend although the more survival/ Anna Anderson stuff is, and there are legend like elements about her, mostly due to later interpretations rather than the historical facts we do have about her life. Pocahontas was more of a legend, I think. I guess these were largely different movies... ;)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2006, 11:32:27 AM by imperial angel »

Offline Taren

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
    • The Chick Manifesto
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #251 on: October 06, 2006, 02:07:11 PM »
I don't think they made it because she was a legend.. just that she was the first Native American to learn English and whatnot.

No she wasn't.

And yes, she was a legend. By legend, I mean that there have been many stories/myths circulating about her for hundreds of years. With many of the stories, we have no way of knowing what was true or not. She never learned to write, so she couldn't write her life story herself. Anastasia wasn't a legend. Anything you want to know about her you can find. She wrote letters and diaries, people wrote to and about her, so we know what she was like. Where we're not really sure if Pocahontas had a relationship with John Smith, we can be pretty darn sure that Anastasia wasn't pursued by an undead Rasputin and his pet bat.

Love4Royalty

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #252 on: October 06, 2006, 07:27:20 PM »
Haha right, the first Native American to learn English was a man?  I don't know, I'm not so interested in US history!  ::)

azrael7171918

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #253 on: October 07, 2006, 12:46:00 PM »


Getting back to the film, if a film had been done about a Russian "princess" named Svetlana, without Tsar Nicholas, without Rasputin, without the real Anastasia's artwork, I doubt anyone would have been upset. I think the real Anastasia, who behaved impeccably during her imprisionment, deserves more respect than this film shows her. I do object to diminishing her accomplishments and do object to the absolute untruths that the film presents as fact. That does not mean I don't appreciate what it did accomplish and doesn't mean people can't enjoy the soundtrack. I just mean, the girl deserves far more respect than the filmmakers show her.
[/quote]


Did anybody make this kind of a fuss over the Amy Irving piece which I found to be a disgrace especially since it claimed to be the TRUE STORY? That comes from an article that was written at the time of the release on TV.  Was such a fuss made over some of the scenes in N&A and I think we all know what they are?

This was animated not live action. Live action dramas made from historical events have no right to sully the reputation of a young woman murdered when she was 21.

I questioned once if James Goldman didn't have it in for the Family by the films he did on them. I still believe he did.

The animated version was done because FOX still owned the rights to the story from 1955 and because of the interest at the time with the discovery of the remains.

The film acknowledges the book from which the drawiings were taken. I just watched the newest incarnation of the
 DVD and the documentary on the making of the film the producer and director both acknowledged the original tragedy.

I think all think all this fuss over the film is ridiculous.  I have seen documentaries done for children about the Romanovs that have given incorrect information which was far more insulting.

azrael

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #254 on: October 07, 2006, 05:16:05 PM »
21? You mean 17....