Author Topic: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995  (Read 171606 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #270 on: October 12, 2006, 11:38:10 AM »
It may be too soon for you or for me  .. and I am American, and I live less than 10 minutes from the Pentagon (I was in Kent, actually on 9-11), but it might not be as raw for others now.  A number of families of victims came out in support of both movies.  But I also think it is very important to honor those who gave their lives to try and save others.   CBS TV has run twice a program about the firefighters (with a camera crew that followed them that day - amazing, powerful footage - .. I watched a bit of that  )

I agree, Marlene- I think Lisa is taking this far too seriously, and that is why I think she and some others need to take a step back and gather some perspective on this issue.

I know what you're saying about the film to do with September 11th and its similarities to war movies, etc, but for me, it's just too soon to be making those events into films.  I think they should have waited until it wasn't so raw for so many people.  I don't need a film to remind me; I can still remember the shock and horror I felt watching those towers go down. I just don't think there was a need to make a film about September 11th; why? What is the purpose? We all remember what happened.  We don't need Nicholas Cage to act it out for us.

Rachel
xx
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #271 on: October 12, 2006, 12:11:15 PM »
I agree, Marlene- I think Lisa is taking this far too seriously, and that is why I think she and some others need to take a step back and gather some perspective on this issue.

I know what you're saying about the film to do with September 11th and its similarities to war movies, etc, but for me, it's just too soon to be making those events into films.  I think they should have waited until it wasn't so raw for so many people.  I don't need a film to remind me; I can still remember the shock and horror I felt watching those towers go down. I just don't think there was a need to make a film about September 11th; why? What is the purpose? We all remember what happened.  We don't need Nicholas Cage to act it out for us.

Rachel
xx

To get way off topic, I agree about Sept 11 movies. Every word of that last part, I agree with. I think it just doesn't have a purpose now. In twenty years, fifteen, even ten years later an event can belong to history. But five is rather too short, for me. I think there is history, and then there is the more recent stuff, and we can make films about history, and not drag things in that may well touch too raw a nerve. I had to listen to a speech in speech class last spring about why ( it was a persuasive speech) Sept 11 movies should not be made nor watched. Well, the guy giving the speech was right, but he wasn't very persuasive. But this last part of the post is.

Back to the topic: Anastasia movies. I think if people regard it as disrespectful, completely that is their right. If you wish to regard it as an innocent cartoon, then do that as well. I think everybody can say what they wish if they are respectful about it. I think the Anastasia movie has the potential to get kids interested, but should have been not so much a hodge podge of history and legend, and silly things. It might have just decided to be about either the real story or the legend of Anna Anderson and survival. That would have been better.

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #272 on: October 12, 2006, 12:39:56 PM »
I can always tell when a topic is getting exhausted when comments start getting personalized as in "Lisa takes this too seriously" and I start repeating myself.

Everyone is welcome to have her or his own opinion and and even to judge me and others and our myriad of  opinions.

For me, I guess, this topic is played out. I have repeate myself and have been judged too serious by some of you. Point is, I don't know what else I could possibly contribute in the way of further posts that would be of benefit to anyone. It seems that there are two fairly well articulated points of view - one that the film is offensive because of its inaccuracies and another that it's only a movie and nothing for anyone to be concerned about.

Offline Marlene

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2466
  • I live and breath QVD
    • View Profile
    • Royal Musings
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #273 on: October 12, 2006, 12:54:11 PM »
Offensive is a strong word, far too strong for a movie claimed to have inaccuracies ... it was not meant to a historical film.

Now - pornography is offensive.  Children or animals being abused are all offensive.  Going to the bathroom over a statue of Jesus Christ is offensive.  The War in Iraq is offensive.   I would not describe this animated film as offensive at all. 
I can always tell when a topic is getting exhausted when comments start getting personalized as in "Lisa takes this too seriously" and I start repeating myself.

Everyone is welcome to have her or his own opinion and and even to judge me and others and our myriad of  opinions.

For me, I guess, this topic is played out. I have repeate myself and have been judged too serious by some of you. Point is, I don't know what else I could possibly contribute in the way of further posts that would be of benefit to anyone. It seems that there are two fairly well articulated points of view - one that the film is offensive because of its inaccuracies and another that it's only a movie and nothing for anyone to be concerned about.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline Romanov_fan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #274 on: October 13, 2006, 10:13:51 AM »
I think this topic is rather running out of steam, correct. You are right about the two viewpoints on this movie, and I think both are entitled to their opinion. Some things are offensive, and different people take the view of offensive or not so. I believe the movie might have tried to be more tactful and accurate, but if it gets people interested, then great. If you want to reach people about a subject, you should try TV/movies rather than books. More people watch this stuff than ever read books, sad or not. So, you if you want to reach people about history, have a movie or TV show. And try to make it respectful, and entertaining, if at all possible.

Offline Taren

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
    • The Chick Manifesto
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #275 on: October 13, 2006, 03:03:36 PM »
In regard to the Anastasia/World Trade Center comparison, I think there really is no comparison. While the Stone film had 100% cooperation from the real McLoughlin and Jimeno and their families (in order to insure accuracy), the Anastasia film as I understand had no support from any Romanovs and from what I gathered here, the Romanovs were rather upset by the finished product. Furthermore, I would just like to join in with Marlene in saying that the Stone film absolutely 100% did not glamorize anything! What could it have glamorized? There's nothing glamorous about terrorists attacking the twin towers and two husbands and fathers being trapped under the rubble for days. Sure, maybe it was too early, but that doesn't mean it was a musical (title song being of course "Once Upon a September") and that Osama Bin Laden had a talking bat, and the victims turned out to be impersonators, when the real victims had actually died a horrible death. Now that would have been pretty disrespectful to the families, wouldn't it? Gee...where have I heard of that plotline before?

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #276 on: October 14, 2006, 10:08:24 AM »
In regard to the Anastasia/World Trade Center comparison, I think there really is no comparison. While the Stone film had 100% cooperation from the real McLoughlin and Jimeno and their families (in order to insure accuracy), the Anastasia film as I understand had no support from any Romanovs and from what I gathered here, the Romanovs were rather upset by the finished product. Furthermore, I would just like to join in with Marlene in saying that the Stone film absolutely 100% did not glamorize anything! What could it have glamorized? There's nothing glamorous about terrorists attacking the twin towers and two husbands and fathers being trapped under the rubble for days. Sure, maybe it was too early, but that doesn't mean it was a musical (title song being of course "Once Upon a September") and that Osama Bin Laden had a talking bat, and the victims turned out to be impersonators, when the real victims had actually died a horrible death. Now that would have been pretty disrespectful to the families, wouldn't it? Gee...where have I heard of that plotline before?

Thank you. As a New Yorker, I find it incredibly offensive (and I do believe offensive is the proper word here) that someone would even try to compare these two events. As Taren so nicely pointed out, there is no comparison between them, so stop trying to create one. And not to get off topic here, but I had no real problem with the creation of the World Trade Center movie. Yes it was a bit hard to watch at times, but I think it was a nice tribute to the heroes of that day, lest we all forget them in the midst of that carnage. Anastasia is not even on the same wavelength.

There doesn't seem to be any middle ground here, so why don't we just let this topic die down and let everyone have his or her own opinions? Nothing of substance is really being added to this discussion at this point.

Ra-Ra-Rasputin

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #277 on: October 14, 2006, 06:34:47 PM »
My comparison was about degrees of offensiveness.  Obviously this comparison has failed to be understood in the context it was originally intended.

My point was that I don't find the Anastasia cartoon offensive because it does not attempt to retell real life.

Regardless of whether I am a New Yorker or not, I still find the World Trade Center movie, and the whole 'branding' of the September 11th attacks as 9/11, as if it's simply a catchphrase rather than a real event, offensive and derogatory to those who died.  As a Londoner, I too have experienced an attack close to home and I feel that making a movie about these things is completely unnecessary.  The 'let's make a movie about it', as if we NEED to make a movie to make these people heroes, rather than them being heroes for their own sakes, is what offends me.  Making a film out of something that has literally changed the world forever, and that happened only five years ago, is downright offensive as far as I'm concerned.  People died going about their everyday lives.  They will always be remembered for the terrible means of their deaths.  Do we really need to go to the cinema and pay money to see what heroes these people were, as depicted by Nicholas Cage? I think that's disgusting, myself, and Hollywood cashing in on the suffering of others.  But everyone feels differently about these sorts of things, and if you think a film that does nothing but earn the cast millions of dollars is a fitting tribute to those who died, then fair dos.

I agree this subject is clearly closed now.  We're obviously never going to agree!

Rachel
xx

Offline Taren

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
    • The Chick Manifesto
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #278 on: October 14, 2006, 08:28:50 PM »
My comparison was about degrees of offensiveness.  Obviously this comparison has failed to be understood in the context it was originally intended.

My point was that I don't find the Anastasia cartoon offensive because it does not attempt to retell real life.

I'll definitely agree with you there. I actually caught it as the credits were rolling on HBO last night. The disclaimer said something to the effect of "though these are mostly real people, most of this isn't true, so you probably shouldn't believe any of it". I'm just paraphrasing but you get the gist. It actually came on again later that night and I watched a bit of it. In the movie's defense, I will say the animation was beautiful. I also thought the music was nice (what I heard -I couldn't watch the whole thing). I couldn't help but nitpick though....the ages were wrong, the YEARS Rasputin and the IF died were off. I mean seriously, would it have killed them to make it 1918? All in all, if I was ignorant of all things Anastasia, I probably would like the movie. Christopher Lloyd made me laugh as Rasputin and John Cusack can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not ignorant and it just kind of left me with a bad taste in my mouth -as did much of the Romanov representation in The Lost Prince.

None of us are right or wrong for our opinions. If you believe it was a good movie, then it was -to you. If you believe it trivialized an horrific historic time, then it did -to you.

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #279 on: October 14, 2006, 08:59:38 PM »
There doesn't seem to be any middle ground here, so why don't we just let this topic die down and let everyone have his or her own opinions? Nothing of substance is really being added to this discussion at this point.

This sounds good.  :( I don't think there's any way everyone can agree on one thing.

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #280 on: October 15, 2006, 10:17:49 AM »
Nobody is going to agree, of course! Everyone has their own opinions about this kind of thing. I don't like the movie, but I love the song Once Upon a December. And you don't have to like the movie, or agree with it. There are reasons to like the movie, and there are reasons to dislike the movie. It just depends on what you believe. Personally, I liked the movie when I was six, when I thought it was all made up and no one named Anastasia existed. But when I learned about Anastasia and saw the movie again 7 years later, I thought it was stupid and horrible. What if someone made an animated movie called, "The Diary of Anne Frank"?

In the movie, 8 year old Anne is in hiding from the Nazi's and one day someone finds her and her familys hiding place. Anne escapes by going through a secret hole in the wall but while running through a nearby forest, she hits her head on a rock and can't remember anything about her life. She is found by a man and taken to an orphanage. Then 10 years later she goes on an adventure to find her family and falls in love.  :P

My point is, it's not the fact that they made an animated movie about the subject, it's the content of the movie. When they change the story completely and little children will likely believe it to be the truth, it's a problem in my eyes. This is not just a personal family's story and memories they are meddling with, this is also historical.

How do you think the families of 9/11 victims would feel about an animated story called "September 11th" in which the victims heroically escape the buildings and go on an adventure??  ::)
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

azrael7171918

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #281 on: October 15, 2006, 02:05:13 PM »
It seems that there are two fairly well articulated points of view - one that the film is offensive because of its inaccuracies and another that it's only a movie and nothing for anyone to be concerned about.

Lisa.  I asked in my question if the same fuss was made over the inaccuracies in "Nicholas & Alexandra" and "Anastasia the Mytery of Anna"

Those films were taken from biographies by the same screenwriter. These were historical dramas. The later having as many holes in it as "Fate of the Romanovs."

These films I am concerned about. Concidering the public looks at historical dramas as history. Both have the Tsarevich attempting suicide. One has a Grand Duchess exposing herself because she is 21 and pretty ( I don't see Tatiana being that vain if at all, let alone exposing herself) Anastasia in the second appears to be about 12, Alexie 9 or 10, Anastasia has no relationships with her sisters. Shall I go on?

These are disturbing. An animated film and I have never heard of any animated film known for their historical accuracy is not.

Azrael

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #282 on: October 15, 2006, 10:14:55 PM »
I have reported your includsion of a matter I am not permitted out of respect for Bob to discuss to the FA. I hope it's just an innocent mistake and that you are not part of that lynch mob.

I can and will comment on the two other films you mention. Yes, for the record, I also found many aspects of "Anastasia The Mystery of Anna" and "Nicholas and Alexandra" to be offensive, although the historical distortions are less glaring especially in the later film. I'm not sure that N & A is really a fair comparison, in that it really doesn't deal with the whole survivor issue.

The real problem with "Mystery" for me is that it makes nearly everyone angry. Peter Kurth, upon whose book the film is purportedly based, explained that AA had never had a "boyfriend" the way that film shows the Frederick Von Anhalt character being, and so her camp was definitely underwhelmed. So I would imagine were the Romanovs. so, this film maddens partially in the way it mixes a few facts with utter fantasy.

The problems are much more subtle with N & A. Much of the history is true, but then there is the matter of including Stolypin in the 300th anniversary celebrations, when the man had actually been dead for 2 years I believe. I did have the impression that there were attempts for accuracy and certainly there was far less utter fantasy.

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #283 on: October 16, 2006, 11:27:07 AM »
Quote
The problems are much more subtle with N & A. Much of the history is true, but then there is the matter of including Stolypin in the 300th anniversary celebrations, when the man had actually been dead for 2 years I believe. I did have the impression that there were attempts for accuracy and certainly there was far less utter fantasy.

So I gather then that Tatiana revealing herself to a soldier and going on about how lovely she is was not pure fantasy? If anything, I would call that the ultimate insult to the grand duchesses.

azrael7171918

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia Cartoon circa 1995
« Reply #284 on: October 16, 2006, 01:00:51 PM »
I have reported your includsion of a matter I am not permitted out of respect for Bob to discuss to the FA. I hope it's just an innocent mistake and that you are not part of that lynch mob.

Lisa

All I was asking for was an answer to my question. There was nothing meant personally against you.  Because I find historical films and documentaries far more insulting because of the information that is out there and people not taking the time to study and get it right. The information is meant to educate where an animated film is primarily entertainment.

Personally I think Anastasia was probably getting a kick out of the whole idea. Imagin being the youngest daughter in a society where she was not realy important because she was a girl. Her behavior had to be to get attention because of her lack of status. Yet today she is the one remember as RKM said "not for what she was as a child but for things said afterward."

There is a program on Kids Discovery on mysteries. One that it covered was on Anastasia. The way they talked about the murders was and I quote. "Anastasia's family fled to their estates in Siberia and on July 19th men broke into the house and killed them."

Also the "Russia the Land of the Tsars" in the segment on Nicholas II and the Revolution comment was made" The Tsar's daughters were going to have to learn to live without their fancy clothes."

These are done as history this is what the general public gets it's information from.

I remember the first time I sat down with a friend and watched N&A she asked me questions afterward. Did this really happen did that really happen?

The same when were went to OTMA in New York. There were inaccuracies. Even I get a little miffed at that but as play continued I understood where Kate Ryan was coming from. She is a great admirer of the Girls in fact she told me in an email that Olga was her favorite.


I am sorry if you took what I said as personal. It was not meant that way.

Azrael