Author Topic: Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte  (Read 9793 times)

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Offline britt.25

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Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte
« on: May 16, 2006, 08:27:58 AM »
Hello,

I am looking for any photo or picture of the aunt of Marie Bonaparte, Princess of Greece, Jeanne Bonaparte, who was married to Christian de Villeneuve-Escaplon.

I have seen some of her children (but not all), who were the cousins of the famous Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962), but I haven´t ever seen or found any picture or photo of Jeanne, her aunt. She lived from 1861 until 1910, and was the only sister of Prince Roland Bonaparte, Marie Bonapartes father.

If anyone here has got any idea, where to find a picture of Jeanne Bonaparte, please give me a link or tell me any information, I would be very happy, as I am looking for any portrait of Jeanne de Villeneuve Escaplon (neé Bonaparte) already for a very long time.

In my book on Marie Bonaparte by Celia Bertin Jeanne is only mentioned in the text, but there isn´t any picture, but maybe there are also other books or archives that I do not know.


Thanks for any reply, I am happy for any link or help! :)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 03:30:32 PM by Forum Admin »
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Offline Vasaborg

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 02:18:40 PM »
Have you tryed the Worldroots site? A lot of photographs of the Bonapartes there.

Offline britt.25

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2007, 03:49:38 PM »
Unfortunately Jeanne de Villeneuve, sister of Roland, is not on the net, even not at wordroots and photo archives. As I almost know all Bonapartes as pictures, Photos of Jeanne must be very rare, and maybe they are only in the family. However there was a picture by Disderi at Artprice.com, only to see, when having a one day account (already quite expensive!) and I was very disappointed to see that the picture, which was called Jeanne B. must have been her as a child, but was very hard to recognize as being very small.
I got a little contact to a descendant of Jeanne, who wrote back to me some days ago (hard for me to understand the french Email) and maybe they can help me along anyway. I suppose no, but I will see.
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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 04:17:02 PM »
Dear Britta,

In my Marie Bonaparte by Celia Bertin there is a picture of both Christian de Villeneuve and of a Jeanne de Villeneuve.

Does your book not have this picture?

Offline britt.25

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2007, 08:06:19 AM »
Really??? Can't believe, if so...

My book does not contain any picture of the Villeneuve family. I have the one with the blue cover and a picture of 17 -year old Marie on it. It contains some pics of Marie and her father & mother, one of Eugenie, but none of the Villeneuves. But it seems to me that different versions of the same book contain different pictures. In one other book, owned by a member of our forum, there were completely other pictures than in mine.
I know pictures from some of the Villeneuve children from genea. Portugal, great site.

Christian was the husband of Jeanne (sr), but their daughter was called Jeanne as well. So do you have a picture of Maries aunt, sister of Roland, and wife of Christian, or of her daughter, who was called Jeanne as well, later married Leret d' Aubigny? The old or the young Jeanne?

Thanks for informing...!
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2007, 06:25:09 PM »
Yes, we must have different editions as my copy has a picture of an older Pss Marie on its cover.

Here are the pictures of Christian & Jeanne de Villeneuve. I think that the lady in the picture is Marie's aunt and not her cousin by the same name. But what is your opinion?


Offline britt.25

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 05:28:13 AM »
Hello Seth,

Thank you so much for your help. I almost can`t believe it. I have been looking for a picture of Jeanne Bonaparte for five years now, and never found it. Yes, the picture must be her, and not her daughter, as she is pictured beside a photo of her husband at the same age. Pictures of her daughter Jeanne are defintely different, as I have seen them, she is also dressed differently and is much more slim. When Jeanne (jr) was at the age of that lady people usally had a different style (20ies, 30 ies).
I would now be interested in purchasing that same book, also because there seem to be more rare pictures on that page, which I can see only partly from your scan, and which I did not know before....I gave the blue book of Marie to my grandma some time ago as a present, and maybe I could purchase your edition somewhere, can you once scan the cover pic, so that I can look for it? Where did you personally buy that book? I did know that you read the Celia Bertin- book as well! ;)

Once again, that's such a surprise to me. Made my day, can't believe it...more in priv. maybe :) :)


PS. Is there a possibility to take out only the Jeanne picture and then scan it in a great version?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 05:29:48 AM by britt.25 »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Looking for a special picture
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 05:44:23 AM »
To compare:

1) Justine- Eleonore Ruflin, her mother:




2) Jeanne de Villeneuve, her daughter




...who had a complicated relationship to Marie, or better said the other way around. She let her always feel "ugly", but in fact I don't think that Jeanne was more beautiful than Marie!


And I think one can see the difference between the old and the young Jeanne. Is this pic also in your book or others?
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 06:15:14 AM »
To the moderators: Thank you for changing the title. It's better, we now know, who the princess is and what she looks like.  :) :)
I'll  send more infos later.
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     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 10:09:47 AM »
Here is a second portrait of Jeanne de Villeneuve neé Bonaparte, sister of anthropologist Roland and aunt to the famous princess Marie Bonaparte:




Very rare picture!! Source: "The scetch magazine, May, 31 th, 1905".

Almost a miracle to get that article.

La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 11:18:52 AM »
The very rare article in the old magazine from 1905 also bears some rare portraits from other descendants of Lucien Bonaparte.

Picture that shows all children of Jeanne Bonaparte and Christian de Villeneuve:



Headline:

"The children of the marquise de Villeneuve (neé princesse Jeanne Bonaparte): From left to right: Lucien, Jeanne (see my former post: later married Leret d'Aubigny, the most famous discussed cousin of Marie Bonaparte), Anne, Romée, Roselyne, and Pierre de Villeneuve (the oldest boy)"

The article "Living links with the great Napoleon" says about the couple:

"A very important family group representing Napoleon I in modern Paris (they speak of the year 1905!) is that descended from the great conqueror's brother, Lucien (....)
The head of this minor or younger section of the Imperial family is now Prince Roland Bonaparte (followed by descriptions about Roland B.)
By a strange irony of fate, one of the agreeable and charming Parisian hostesses is Prince Roland's only sister, Princess Jeanne Bonaparte, Marquise de Villeneuve. She is married to a nobleman, who is, oddly enough, the head of a family famed for its loyalty to the Royalists as opposed to the Bonapartist cause. The Marquis and the marquise de Villeneuve are the proud parents of six beautiful children, and they are very popular in the French world."



Interesting and new to me was the fact that the de Villeneuve family was in origin a family loyal to the french kings  and in opposition to the Bonapartists! It's amazing that Roland's only sister married exactly in such a family, and that there evidently were no problems because of that (or not known problems!) As far as I know their mother Justin Ruflin was a very convinced and old fashioned Bonapartist as well always wanting his son Roland to have miltary career because of his Bonaparte origin etc etc. Didn't she say anything against that marriage? Does anyone know more?



A portrait of young Princess Marie shows a great resemblence to her aunt Jeanne:
Look the nose!




Interesting are also the infos on Marie's distant cousins, the two daughters of the last Prince of Canino, Charles- Grégoire, who died in 1899 and left to daughters by his wife, princess Christine Ruspoli, described in the article as a "very clever, cultivated woman"



1. Their first daughter Maria, married to the italian officer Enrico Gotti:






The resemblence to the distant cousin Marie is amazing in my opinion (Marie and Maria are only cousins of second grade: Marie, daughter of Roland, himself daughter of Pierre B, Maria, daughter Charles, himself son of Charles Lucien, older brother of Pierre)!


2. Their second daughter Eugenia, married to the Prince of Moskowa, whose name Napoléon Ney d' Elchingen (therefore a descendant of Ney) looms large in Napoleonic annals





Very beautiful lady as well- and the only picture I know of her.


3. Their mother Princess Ruspoli (descending from the Habsburgs over the Savoia lines)







Interesting is indeed the last sentence of the article:

"Should France, by any strange chance, ever hail another Emperor of the name Napoleon, the many Princes and Princesses of whom we have given a slight sketch will form the nucleus of a brilliant court"

Strange are two points for me: Firstly that they don't name the name of the "official head" of the family,who descends from Jérome (well...yes at that time the line of Lucien still lived...interesting is that the line of Lucien is emphazised that much, almost set equal with the other Bonapartes descendants, which is rather rare...read in the biography of Marie Bonaparte, which "low" standard the descendants of Lucien had at that time in comparison to those descending from Prince Napoleón) and secondly that they really consider a "chance" for a third Bonaparte court...

The article is very interesting, even when there are some little mistakes in it. Who is interested can have a copy. :)

« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 11:21:48 AM by britt.25 »
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     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline Dmitry Russian

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Re: Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 09:36:58 PM »
Jeanne de Villeneuve is a princess, though in her viens there is not any blue blood. It is very strangely. Her direct ansistor is Lucien who was twice married the simplest girls. One of these girls is Jeanne's grandmother. Later Lucien's son, Pierre by name, had married to the daughter of any painter or groser. Pierre and his wife had their daughter Jeanne. So what princess is Jeanne?!

Do you think that Lucien's descendants must have any rights to be a head of a family or rights to the French Imperial Throne?
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Princess Jeanne de Villeneuve, neé Bonaparte
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2007, 12:02:15 PM »
Please not the same kind of discussion here, Dmitry... ::)

The story with the royal title of Lucien is quite complex, in the bio of Marie Bonaparte it's very well described. Lucien got the title of a Prince of Canino after some trouble (it was later acknowledged by the pope, if I remember it correctly...have to look once again in that book) and he was indeed an imperial Prince also made by Napoleon (through Napoleon all his brothers got imperial titles) even if - what is correct- he had never any reign like the other brothers.
From the origin Lucien, the most intelligent of all the Corsican brothers, was Napoleon's favourite brother and Lucien also helped him on Nov 9 th, 1799, but then broke with him, because as you said, his wives were too simple and not accepted by Napoleon. Whereas Jerome followed his brothers will to separated from his American wife to gather an empire by Napoleon, Lucien was loyal to his wives and had his own will. All this is with a reason that the line of Lucien always was somewhere "beyond" the others. It's also evident that in this line non- equal marriages were repeating itselves. Justine Eléonore, wife of Pierre and grandmother to Princess Marie, was really rather of a very simple origin, but a very strong personality and convinced Bonapartist, she later tried to catch the attention for example by opening a shop with the headline "Princess Pierre Bonaparte". But the success was rather poor, so she was always jealous of the more successful and more rich Bonaparte line(s) and to become her son rich, she married him to one of the two daughters of the famous founder of the Monte Carlo Casino, whose wife was simple as well (from near my hometown Friedrichsdorf, hugenot origin)
To come back to the Lucien problem: The Lucien descendants were more scientifically talened and educated, but even the son of Marie Bonaparte and George of Greece married morganatically. 
To the questions: 1) There are no male descendants of Lucien Bonaparte today, so how can anyone of them have any rights to the french throne? And even if there were still some, they are Princes of Canino, not official heirs. Lucien never had any reign or something and the chances for the descendants of him to be head of the family would rather be very poor.  2.) Rights to the french throne (even- if like often discussed this will never happen in my opinion) have only the Princes Napoléon (which means the line of Jerome- see other topic), not those of Lucien (if there still were some today)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 12:08:52 PM by britt.25 »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)