Author Topic: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories #1  (Read 169511 times)

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Arleen_Ristau

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #165 on: July 21, 2005, 08:21:50 PM »
I second that Tsaria, I would love to know anything at all that comes to mind on the subject of their actual clothing, you know HOW it was kept safe and WHERE exactly it was kept.  Oh the fabrics!  Anything at all about the fabrics and etc.

Please Tsaria..

..A

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #166 on: July 23, 2005, 05:33:31 PM »
Reading the post about the fragility of the fabric reminded me of Nicholas' uniforms.  

When I first saw them, what struck me most was there size.   I know Nicholas was not a large man, but these jackets would barely have fitted a 12 year old boy.  

I asked the curator if there was a reason why they were so small and was Nicholas even smaller than history relates.   She explained to me the Tsar's clothes has shrunk in the cleaning process.

Nicholas' uniforms are impressive especially the Royal Scots Greys because it is so complete and his Honourary Admiral of the British Fleet - because of the connection.   By far the most moving is the Hussar's uniform he wore on the day of his wedding to Alexandra.

I have examined the boots he wore that day, closely.    They are made from fine patent leather with a brass motif on the front and spurs on the heels.   I think Nicholas must have only worn them on that one occasion.   The soles are barely scuffed.   So soft is the leather, it is possible still to see the imprint of his toes.

tsaria
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by tsaria »

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #167 on: July 24, 2005, 04:52:58 AM »
Does anyone have any idea of the measurements of the Tsar?

Judging by the photographs, he seems to have maintained a fairly trim figure for most of his life and at a rough guess I would not have put him at more than a 42" chest.......

Tsaria, that is really fascinating information about the Tsar's uniforms; what a terrible shame that they had shrunk in cleaning, almost criminal.......

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Martyn »
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #168 on: July 24, 2005, 12:18:00 PM »
Martyn, I imagine the cleaning techniques used were rather primitive.   This was Soviet Russia - they had difficulty enough feeding the populace.  Indeed it is remarkable they took this degree of interest in the remnants of what was left of those they so abhorred.

Nicholas, in photographs, always appeared to have a fit, well-maintained body.   The chest size of his jackets certainly do not measure 42".   They are not very long either.   It is sad that it is no longer possible to get a true representation of the figure of the man, but it is wonderful so much did survive, revolution and war.  

The Royal Scots Greys had no idea this uniform still existed.   I was happy to reunite them with it.   From this connection grew the presence of pipers of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (the Greys have been amalgamated into this regiment) at the funeral of the Imperial Family.   The pipers piped the coffins bearing the remains of Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana, Maria/Anastasia, Dr Botkin, Anna Demidova, Trupp and Kharitinov off the aircraft which had carried them from Ekaterinburg to St Petersburg.

tsaria

NAAOTMA

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #169 on: July 24, 2005, 02:38:00 PM »
Tsaria, what an incredible experience to touch the clothing, not just look at it from behind glass. Thank you so much for sharing it with all of us.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #170 on: July 24, 2005, 11:29:42 PM »
Thank you, tsaria, for sharing all of this!

From what little I know about the nurses uniforms, the original colors of the dress was a grayish-green.  I find looking at the uniforms fasciating--those and the regimental uniforms of Olga and Tatiana.  Tatiana's I saw at the exhibition in Santa Fe, NM and I was shocked at how tall she must have been--and how tiny her waist was!

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #171 on: July 25, 2005, 11:59:36 AM »
I know those two uniforms as well, Lanie.  

Olga must have been petite, almost diminutive.   Tatiana seemed to have been very much taller.   Her waist I don't think could have been any more than 18",.   Olga's would have been about the same size.   Tatiana's slimness is more exaggerated because of her height.  

Now I wish I had thought of measuring them.   I don't know whether the dry cleaning process affected the girls' uniforms.

tsaria  

katusha

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #172 on: July 25, 2005, 05:22:52 PM »
Rubbish! My grandfather was his cousin and he was also dressed as a girl until three and it made no difference to him at all.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #173 on: July 25, 2005, 06:59:24 PM »


This I think is the photo to which Tsaria referred earlier.....She looks astonishingly youthful.......

One of my favourites......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Martyn »
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #174 on: July 25, 2005, 07:02:00 PM »


And the girls in their uniforms......

Anyone have any idea what they were made from?  Starched cotton, or linen, maybe, in the Summer?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #175 on: July 25, 2005, 07:16:18 PM »
Yes I agree.

I think that we need to exercise some caution with some of Felix's assertions about his parents......I feel that sometimes he is guilty of more than just a touch of sensationalism.....

Many men survived this transition period of childhood dress with no longterm damage to their masculinity.......
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Robert_Hall

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #176 on: July 25, 2005, 07:36:40 PM »
Given the chance, most kids will "dress up" on their own, without any motherly encouragement. I think Felix simply enjoyed it because he had so much fun.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #177 on: July 25, 2005, 09:41:39 PM »
It was a common thing in those times. I have several 1900's magazines where you may find some publicity with "Dresses for Boys". I may send to someone the scan of those publicities to scan here. There were in Spanish. Yo may however, notice, that those dresses were called "dresses for boys" not plainly dresses. So, it was not supposed to dress a boy as if he was a girl...I know it's confusing.  ::)

RealAnastasia.

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #178 on: July 26, 2005, 10:44:13 AM »
Thanks for posting the photograph, Martyn.  That IS the one.  

The dress was made of a fine, medium-weight, grey denim-type fabric.   The apron, with its tiny blue and grey check, I think, was cotton.  

The uniform I saw, labelled as Alexandra's, certainly appeared to me to have belonged to someone taller and slimmer.   I think it was most likely Tatiana's.   However, in the picture Martyn posted, the aprons Olga and Tatiana are wearing seem to be white.   (Do you see how slim Tatiana was?   Olga lost weight as a result of her breakdown.)   Perhaps there were different aprons for different purposes.

Alexandra does look younger in that photograph.   When she was doing something where she felt her contribution was really valued and worthwhile, it seemed to change her entire demeanour.   I suppose that is no different from the rest of us.

tsaria
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by tsaria »

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #179 on: July 28, 2005, 08:08:11 AM »
Quote
Thanks for posting the photograph, Martyn.  That IS the one.  

The dress was made of a fine, medium-weight, grey denim-type fabric.   The apron, with its tiny blue and grey check, I think, was cotton.  

The uniform I saw, labelled as Alexandra's, certainly appeared to me to have belonged to someone taller and slimmer.   I think it was most likely Tatiana's.   However, in the picture Martyn posted, the aprons Olga and Tatiana are wearing seem to be white.   (Do you see how slim Tatiana was?   Olga lost weight as a result of her breakdown.)   Perhaps there were different aprons for different purposes.

Alexandra does look younger in that photograph.   When she was doing something where she felt her contribution was really valued and worthwhile, it seemed to change her entire demeanour.   I suppose that is no different from the rest of us.

tsaria



How frustrating the the attribution should be incorrect.

Alix, we know from existing images, had a fairly full figure.  Stressful circumsatnces and worry may have caused some weight loss, but perhaps not so much that she would fit the uniform that you describe.

As to the aprons, perhaps there were different ones for different purposes?

It is interesting that you describe the fabric as a kind of denim....I wonder if it is cambric, or drill?  

As for the photo, I am sure that it has been retouched.  Other images from this period show Alix to have the look of a middleaged woman; however I must add that the headddress does frame the face in such a way as to conceal some of the facial features, thus softening the effect.  However, it has, without doubt, been retouched.

Thank you so much Tsaria for this first-hand account of these wonderful and evocative articles; how I envy you having had the opportunity to be so close to these effects!
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV