Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories #1

[bluetoria]

I suppose if all the boys wore - what we consider - girls' clothes, it wouldn't have seemed at all 'girly' but quite natural.

Felix was just naturally flamboyant & perhaps enjoyed it more than most, but didn't his mother continue to dress him in girls' clothes long after the age when most boys had moved into more 'macho' attire?  

[Finelly]

Yep, BlueToria - the extended duration may have been due to a combination of the fact that his mother missed having a girl, and that Felix actually enjoyed wearing "girlie" clothes...

[Mgmstl]

My grandfathers born in 1909 & 1910 both wore dresses or shifts, and they did so up until the were 3 or 4, then came pants or knickers.  It was common place for boys to be dressed in these long shifts.

[Martyn]

I think that the term that was used to describe the transition from the infantile dresses that were worn in the first few years of the life of a male child to more maculine garb is 'to be breeched'...that is, to be put into breeches...........

[Bolin]

Yes, I agree that the 10,000 rubles a month spent on clothing seems exaggerated but that would be $5,000 U.S. per month or $60,000 per annum in 1910. The equivalent sum in 2005 currency would be the amount AlexP mentioned of over $1,200,000 per annum.
Perhaps this was the amount spent for Alexandra and her 4 daughters' wardrobes?

[NAAOTMA]

Tsaria, the robe in the Santa Fe exhibit is cotton, with a cloverleaf pattern in pink on a white background. It is pretty and summery, what one would wear as a dressing gown. If I recall it correctly, it had three quarter length sleeves trimmed in lace at the end of the sleeve.

[AlexP]

Yes, I agree that the 10,000 rubles a month spent on clothing seems exaggerated but that would be $5,000 U.S. per month or $60,000 per annum in 1910. The equivalent sum in 2005 currency would be the amount AlexP mentioned of over $1,200,000 per annum.
Perhaps this was the amount spent for Alexandra and her 4 daughters' wardrobes?

Dear Bolin,

I knew something was wrong here...

But I have since discovered that Maria Muchanova's (which is the Russian spelling, not the German) book is basically a complete fraud, an entire complete fraud.  I had never heard of it nor had I ever read it.  It is pure fantasy and was a way of making money on the late Imperial Family.  Thus, it is a pure canard and no one should believe anything in it.

1.  For one, a common maid would not have known how much money the Empress spent on clothes;

2.  Second, a common maid would not be able to distinguish a Paquin gown (of which there were very few) from an entire collection of Worth (of which there were many) as a common maid would surely not be able to read French, perhaps not even read at all;

3.  Etc., etc.

So let's bear this in mind and just put all of the previous poster's comments about Madame Muchanova to rest.

Thank you very much for your kind posting and kind thoughts.

With all of the best from Shanghai,


Alexander Alexandrovitch P.

[Sarushka]

Here's a photo identified as of one of the Grand Duchess's Red Cross uniforms:


And, tsaria --
is this the photo you were referring to in your initial post?

[AlexP]

This is a lovely topic. My grandmother always thought that any color but white for gloves was vulgar and not done. I have never worn a pair of gloves that was any color but white because she would turn in her grave.

There is a true story about Clementine Hozier Churchill. She was asked to be an extra at a dinner party for a rather grand relation, at the last minute, and she did not want to go because she did not have a clean pair of gloves. Her mother told her very strongly that she must go and do her bit as the relative had been most kind to Clementine, who was in economically reduced circumstances. Clementine went to the dinner party, in rather grubby gloves. It was there that she met Winston Churchill for the second time (the first time was not successful) and the rest is history. She was known to be a fastidious and very well-groomed woman, so perhaps her gloves were not in as bad shape as she felt they were. Or perhaps candlelight hid some fashion sins.

This is a wonderful "anecdote" dear friend.  Thank you so much for sharing it with us.  And about a truly grand old family.

[AlexP]

In the film "An Ideal Husband" the adventuress who is determined to have her way regardless of the havoc she causes is seen at an evening event in elbow length white gloves. She fill a plate with delicacies, and without adjusting her gloves, picks up a morsel and pops it in her mouth, with her gloved fingers touching the food. At the time I thought that this action was a subtle way of showing that she was not the well bred lady she pretended to be.

Dear Naaotma,

Kakoi uzhac....quelle bestialite!  Yes, you are quite right...it demonstrated a terrible "esprit maladroit".  Yes, it even greater than subtle...

And can you remember with which hand she did this?  This may sound trivial to the uninitiated buy I trust that she at least she used the right hand, even though gloved.  One never picked up things with one's left hand.

Thank you for sharing this with us.  And thank you for the very nice posting.

With all the best from Shanghai,


A.A.

[Martyn]

NAAOTMA, that is a very interesting point about bracelets being worn over gloves.

Does anyone know what the correct etiquette might be?  There are may images, as you suggest, of royalty in the 19th century thus attired......notably both Alix of Wales and Alix of Russia.....

[AlexP]

NAAOTMA, that is a very interesting point about bracelets being worn over gloves.

Does anyone know what the correct etiquette might be?  There are may images, as you suggest, of royalty in the 19th century thus attired......notably both Alix of Wales and Alix of Russia.....

Dear All,

Here's the Russian take on this good question.  Please let me have the English take.

Divides two ways:

For church, teas, afternoons, morning, when a hat is worn (that is until 19h00), no bracelets or rings overlaying the gloves.  No watches overlaying the gloves.  No rings overlaying the gloves.  This is when the gloves are mid-forearm length at most.

When the gloves formal evening wear, at least 3/4 gloves, a wonderful diamond or expensive jeweled bracelet could be worn.  Preferably only one, on the right hand, to be exact.  Again, no watches, rings (they were worn under the gloves), or other accoutrements.

I cannot speak to Alexandra Feodorovna as she maintained, to be very polite, English standards of dress, even though the clothes came from Paris.  This may have also set her apart from the Court and the Medames of the 500 families who followed French and Russified French traditions.

I look forward to hearing how the rest of the world viewed it, and still views it.


With all of the best from Shanghai,


A.A.

[TampaBay]

Without admitting or denying the veracity of the above-quoted postings by the above-referenced poster or posteress, let's consider:

10,000 gold rubles in 1910 equaled 10,000 British pounds.  They were on a par that year.

And in 1910, one British pound sterling equaled 10 United States dollars.

Thus, the maid has asserted that in 1910, where a Rolly-Royce cost less than USD 10,000, the Empress was spending USD 100,000.00 per month on clothes?  USD 1,200,000 a year in clothes in 1910?  Does anyone on this site realize that for USD 1,200,00 a year in 1910 the Empress most likely could have bought every haute couture dress produced in Paris?

Does anyone NOT see the spuriousness of these figures?

I agree.  Even Jackie Kennedy, Oprah Winfery, Ivana Trupp and HRH Elizbeth Taylor do not/did not spend that kind of money on clothes.  AND Oprah is on TV every day!

TampaBay

[etonexile]

Those elbow length gloves must have been a blessing in huge,drafty,icey palaces...and the ladies were nearly "popping" out of their frocks at the shoulders and decolletage...brrrrrrrrr...

[AlexP]

As I am left handed, I would have struggled in the Edwardian world. It does come in handy when using silverware in the continental manner though...

Dear Naatoma,

You would have more than struggled, dear friend.  In Russia, you would have been forced to write with your right hand, you would have been forced to become right-handed, etc., etc., but yes, for eating European-style, no problems.  For whatever reason, left-handedness was not acceptable to in the 19th century.

But the table manners would have been the best in the world, for sure, and that is what everyone would have noticed.



A.A.