Author Topic: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories #1  (Read 174740 times)

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Offline Ortino

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #210 on: August 16, 2005, 11:47:45 PM »
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  For whatever reason, left-handedness was not acceptable to in the 19th century.

A.A.


Left handedness hasn't been accepted throughout history. I found an interesting article that explains some of the origin of this hatred:

Many left-handed people consider themselves oppressed by the right-handed majority — to the point of "prejudice." Many European languages (including English) use the same word for "right" (in a directional sense) to mean "correct, proper". The Latin word for "right-handed" is "dexter," as in dexterity. Throughout history, being left-handed was considered as negative — the Latin "sinister" means "left." In Italian, it is sinistra. There are many negative connotations associated with the word "left-handed": clumsy, awkward, unlucky, insincere, sinister, malicious, and so on. French gauche, meaning "left", means "awkward or clumsy" in English, whereas French droit is cognate with English "adroit", meaning dextrous, skilful with the hands, and right-handed. In Spanish, the word "diestro" (right-handed) means also skilful. As these are all very old words, they would tend to support theories indicating that the predominance of right-handedness is an extremely old phenomenon.

The Eskimos believed that every left-handed person was a sorcerer. In the old age, though there were few examples of it happening, a Japanese man could divorce his wife if he discovered that she was left-handed. There have been, however, many famous left-handed people, and the associated right brain hemisphere that is said to be more active in left-handed people has been found in some circumstances to be associated with genius and is correlated with artistic and visual skill.

Until very recently in Taiwan, left-handed people were strongly encouraged to switch to being right-handed (or at least, switch to writing with the right hand). Latin characters are equally easy to write with either hand, but it is more difficult to write legible Chinese characters with the left hand. The prescribed direction of writing each line of a Chinese character is designed for the movements of the right hand, and some shapes tend to feel awkward to follow with the left hand's fingers. It results in a less soft writing than it would be with the right hand.

Some theorize that those languages that have a written language from right to left, such as Arabic and Hebrew, are derived from cultures where the first writing was chiselled by hand in stone, where right-handed masons would write from right to left. Under this theory, cultures where the first written words were on some form of paper use left to right. This is not universally accepted, however.

Until the latter part of the twentieth century, Roman Catholic nuns in American elementary schools (and possibly elsewhere, like in Dutch primary schools) would punish children for using their left hand to write, typically by slapping their left hand with a ruler if they attempted to pick up a pen with it. Left-handedness was interpreted as a sign of Satanic influence, and thus prohibited.

It has been hypothesized that some sun worshipers have grown to associate their left sides with evil, since people facing north would see the sun set (disappear) on their left. The evidence for this is very weak, however, as the opposite conclusion can be drawn when one considers a person facing south (the opposite direction). It has been suggested that there may be a preference for northern hemisphere dwellers to face the fixed north star (i.e., north) when making directions judgements.


Offline Ortino

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #211 on: August 17, 2005, 11:04:40 AM »
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Thank you for posting this information, Ortino. Left handed people make up 10% of the population. Prince William is a lefty. And as AlexP writes, lefties were forced into becoming right-handed. My aunt was forced to become right-handed and it was hell for her. She was born in the late 1920s, when that practice was still common. My maternal grandmother tried to do the same with me, and my mother put a stop to it.

As for handedness and gloves, since lefties were made to be righties, it all would have been automatic since being taught as a child? But difficult for a child to learn, and no doubt very traumatic for many.


You're welcome NAAOTMA. I too am a lefty so I understand what you're saying NAAOTMA. My brother and I are both lefties, which is extremely surprising considering both our parents are righties. According to what I found, there's a 9% chance of that happening so I really must be unique.  :P  ;)That's terrible what happened to your grandmother. I've heard reports of this happening in earlier decades. Where was your grandmother born? I'd imagine that if you were taught as a child to only use your right hand, it would be awkward perhaps at times but still manageable. I've never understood why the left hand is so negative.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #212 on: August 17, 2005, 04:46:29 PM »
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Here's a photo identified as of one of the Grand Duchess's Red Cross uniforms:





May I ask where this photograph is from?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #213 on: August 17, 2005, 04:48:18 PM »
Haha! That's actully my scan from Peter Kurth's Tsar  ;D

Offline Ortino

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #214 on: August 17, 2005, 04:57:23 PM »
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My grandmother was the American born daughter of two Prussians. I am guessing that her parents brought that European practice with them. Most lefties are somewhat ambidexterous. I only use my right hand for using scissors, holding a cup or glass and a few other things. On the other hand, I was firmly left-handed when it came to tennis and learning a musical instrument. Also left-footed when it came to iceskating. I am the only left-handed person in my generation in my family. You are lucky to have a sibling to share it!

When I lived in Italy in the early 1970s, it was considered very bad manners to do anything with one's left hand in a social setting.


The only people I know who are lefty in my family are me, my brother, and my grandfather (dead), so not so many of us. We lefties are special because there are so few of us. ;D I am somewhat ambidexterous, switching hands depending on what I am doing. I write, pour things, cut, turn pages, and throw with my left hand but use the computer mouse, bat and catch with my right. I can write legibly with my right, but it takes me much longer. I think it depends on what you're doing really and what feels right.

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #215 on: August 17, 2005, 09:51:33 PM »
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Yes, so true. But from now on, I will never forget all the things I am doing with my left hand that in a bygone age would have been done with my right.

AlexP was most kind in his comments. Thank you, AlexP.

As another poster observed, those elbow length gloves  must have been very nice in winter ballroom. I know that glace kid can be lined with silk to make it toasty.

My Great Aunt Jane told wonderful stories of her life as a new bride in the World War One era. She received a present of gloves from her new inlaws. There were different gloves for every event.  Later when she expecting her child,  they gave her a gift of various gloves for when she took the baby out for an airing. Her long evening gloves were beautiful, as were her three quarter length and wrist length.


Dear NAAOMTA,

Thank you for sharing with us your stories about your Great Aunt Jane.  It is precisely these kind of personal stories that bring an era to life for readers in a far off-period.  It is indeed so interesting to learn from another source what we all have been discussing -- the length of the glove, the different colors of the gloves and when they would be worn.  They were indeed noticed in that period.  It separated a lady from the others.

Again, thank you for sharing.

A.A.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AlexP »

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #216 on: August 18, 2005, 07:19:01 AM »
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There is a beautiful quote from the novel THE GO-BETWEEN. It says "The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there." It really sums it up, does it not? And yes, the old family stories give one a glimpse into the past, and give it color and breath.




Quite so.  

I would like to thank both you and Alex for giving us an insight into that world, through the recounting of the experiences of your forebears.

As Alex rightly says, it adds colour and breadth to the facts and customs as we know them.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

julia.montague

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2005, 05:13:51 AM »
I love these dresses.
I would love to try it on and have my hair styled like OTMA .

Janet

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #218 on: August 28, 2005, 08:12:50 AM »
Martyn asked me to post this photo of Elizabeth II at a film premiere in 1953 as an example of a bracelet being worn over gloves.


Offline Ortino

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #219 on: August 28, 2005, 12:05:55 PM »
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There is an interesting picture in the book ROYAL STYLE by Ingrid Seward of a State Banquet at Windsor Castle. The Queen leads the party in, with her long gloves with bracelets on each gloved arm, followed by the Queen Mother wearing her gloves with bracelets exactly the same way, and then Diana follows. Diana is wearing no gloves, one bracelet on her right arm, and is in the pale ice blue chiffon evening dress with the throat scarf. All are in tiaras. The lady following Diana is in long sleeves and no gloves.


I don't know the reason for this, but I think that it's largely just a matter of tradition and taste. The Queen Mother and the Queen had different social standards to follow when growing up (probably the use of gloves whereever they went in a public setting), so perhaps Diana and this other woman found them an unnecessary accessory on this occasion. Or perhaps their status demanded the use of gloves.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Offline gleb

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #220 on: August 30, 2005, 01:23:16 PM »
 
I have recently bought a new pair of Tricker's shoes and looking at a pic showing George V and another showing Nicholas II, I was amazed to see that classic men shoes haven't changed that much.

Does anybody know what kind of shoes men (Royals and aristocrats, I mean) used to wear, where they bought them and other things like these?

Thanks

Gleb

David_Pritchard

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #221 on: August 30, 2005, 03:47:31 PM »
You might find it interesting to know that the standard left and right shoe did not enter common usage until after the United States Civil War. Until the mid-1860's men normally wore straight last shoes, left and right last shoes were made for the richer customers.

In an attempt at war time profiteering and fraud, a US Army contractor who held a contract for making the well known Brogan army shoe, doubled his sales by turning the request for thousands of straight last shoes into a contract for thousands of pairs of left and right last shoes. Thus millions of common people were brought into their first contact with the left and right shoe that we now use everyday.

David

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #222 on: August 31, 2005, 01:44:58 PM »
I don't think that Diana was too worried about ditching things or ideas that did not conform to her idea of doing things, particularly later.

The notion of wearing short gloves to daytime fuctions may well be yet another barrier between the royal personage and the public.  Certainly Pcss Anne is often sporting them, and once on, they seldom come off.

Diana may have felt that she needed a more hands-on approach, literally, and ditched the gloves. Good for her, if that was the case.......
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Tania

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #223 on: August 31, 2005, 04:00:16 PM »
I had never read nor heard that gloves were kept on at dinner, either with only one hand. But, as a side note, in regards to children in russia being forced to write with one's right hand, its true. My father was brought up forced to write with his right hand. Although I never cared what hand my child wrote with, both grandparents still decided on the old way, forcing the right to be used with our child. I learned at an early age to write with both.

I'd heard making a child write with the hand that they do not wish to use, is quite disruptive mentally. I have not seen anything fact based, or in print. Any responses on this ?

Tania

Offline Ortino

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Re: Imperial Women's, Men's and Children's Clothing & Accessories
« Reply #224 on: August 31, 2005, 05:20:53 PM »
^Further up on this page, there's a bit of information and a short discussion about left handed people and them being forced to use their other hand.