Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations

[katmaxoz]

A lot of royal and semi-royal biographies commonly leave out quite a bit in the name of discretion and not slandering other people. If you can work out what they have left out the silences can be very revealing. I remember reading a biography of GD Xenia and at the end the author mentioned she had a long term affair in the latter years of her marriage but even in a modern bio declined to actually say the name of who it was. I felt rather cheated though I have seen the name mentioned elsewhere. MP warmth for her brother and father at the expense of anyone else is at times almost disturbing.

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I have mentioned this before, but it was many years ago, so bears repeating here.  My "Tante Lilly" (Grafinya Elizabeta Tarasova) was about the same age and close friends with MP in New York. 

Countess Tarasova? As I read in a Russian bio on MP, the name of that lady was Elizabeth de Bruner (spelling?).

And as far as I can see there were no Counts Tarasov.

[Svetabel]

I have mentioned this before, but it was many years ago, so bears repeating here.  My "Tante Lilly" (Grafinya Elizabeta Tarasova) was about the same age and close friends with MP in New York. 

Countess Tarasova? As I read in a Russian bio on MP, the name of that lady was Elizabeth de Bruner (spelling?).

And as far as I can see there were no Counts Tarasov.

Yes, there were no any Counts Tarasov, that's why I said about Elizabeth de Bruner (as she mentioned in MP's bio).

[Forum Admin]

Tante Lilly was married to a Count de Bruniere, which was her name when she and MP met.  Tante Lilly was born in Moscow, I recall the family name as being Tarasov, but will have to check again.  She was a cousin of Henri Troyat, who mentions her family in one of his books...

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Ah, I see. Tarasov was a distinguished, untitled Russian noble family. (As well as a common Russian surname.)

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In Marisha: Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna of Russia (1890-1958) by Grant Menzies, available here on the APTM it's stated:

It was on this trip to New York that Marie met up with another Russian emigree, Comtesse Elisabeth de Brunière, whose sister she knew from Greenwich, CT. Mme de Brunière and her sister, born Princesses Tar½sova, were originally from Moscow, where they had been educated in the dizzyingly polyglot fashion de rigeur among the Russian aristocracy. Mme de Brunière had with her a daughter, Odette, and at the time Marie met her Mme de Brunière's home base was Buenos Aires, whence she traveled as part of her work setting up a salon and representing Elizabeth Arden there. According to Odette, from the moment they met Marie and Mme de Brunière "got along beautifully."

I can't find any de Brunière comital title. And here Yelizaveta Tarasova is suddenly a princess, although there were neither Tarasov counts nor princes!

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I recall the family name as being Tarasov, but will have to check again.  She was a cousin of Henri Troyat, who mentions her family in one of his books...

Troyat's family was originally Armenian-Circassian, the family name being T'orosyan, a patronym from an ancestor called Toros from the village of Çənnəb in Nakhchivan in modern Azerbaijan. It was Russified as Tarasov. I see how riches combined with a Caucasian origin would make it easy for claims of a princely title to pop up, but nothing indicates the family having ever been reigning, although they were prosperous merchants.

[Forum Admin]

Tante Lilly and her daughter always said the family was titled.  I DO know they were very very wealthy and Tante Lilly was always referred to by everyone as Comtesse de Bruniere.

Here is the house Tante Lilly grew up in:
30 Spiridonovka Street:  The mansion was named after Moscow’s rich merchant Grigori Tarasov. Architect I. Joltovki was put in charge of the mansion’s construction. It started in late 19th century and were only completed by his sons in 1912, a year after the merchant’s death.

The neoclassic style mansion is meant as a free copy of Palazzo Thiene de Vicenze (Italy) that dates back to the 15th century. Staged around an open inner courtyard, it consists of two one-storey buildings and an adjoining building. The interior decoration also mirrors the Italian renaissance inspiration, particularly with the painted vaults and ceilings by I. Nivinski and the frieze that decorates the ball room painted by E. Lancere.

Nationalized after the October Revolutoin, Tasarov Mansion now hosts the Russian Science Academy Institute of Africa.

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Tante Lilly and her daughter always said the family was titled.  I DO know they were very very wealthy and Tante Lilly was always referred to by everyone as Comtesse de Bruniere.

We may be dealing with a situation similar to the comital title of Henri de Laborde de Monpezat, the Danish Prince Consort. There are various untitled French noble families and chateaux called "de la Brunière", but no exact comital title, as far as I can see. If the definite article is missing, are you sure it's not "Brunier"?

[Forum Admin]

St. Paul's School, Concord, N.H, Alumni Horae
Volume 27, Issue 3, Page 102, Articles 1  "Marriages"
Originally published: Autumn 1947
'42-WILLIAM EVARTS BENJAMIN, 2D, to Miss Odette de Bruniere, daughter of Countess Elizabeth de Bruniere and the late Count Alfred A. Alexander de Bruniere, on August 5, 1947, at New York.

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Here is the house Tante Lilly grew up in:
30 Spiridonovka Street:  The mansion was named after Moscow’s rich merchant Grigori Tarasov.

Grigoriy or Gabriel Aslanovich Tarasov, probably the brother of Henri Troyat's father Aslan A. Tarasov.

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'42-WILLIAM EVARTS BENJAMIN, 2D, to Miss Odette de Bruniere, daughter of Countess Elizabeth de Bruniere and the late Count Alfred A. Alexander de Bruniere, on August 5, 1947, at New York.

This lady: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/statesman/obituary.aspx?n=odette-terrel-des-chnes&pid=152543685?
It gives her mother's name as Elizabeth Saroukhanoff.

If the title was not transmitted to the daughter, if was perhaps because it was for life only, i.e. a Papal title?

[Forum Admin]

We knew Odette very well.  Saroukhanoff was Elizabeth's mother's maiden name.  The grandchildren were never very keen on their Russian heritage at all.  Not certain why you are being so keen on all of this.  Do you not get that I spent countless numbers of hours with Tante Lilly?  She lived five minutes from us here, and I spoke with her almost daily and visited her and she was a regular guest here when her health allowed.  She treated me like a grandchild because I was far more interested in her Russian roots and story than her actual grandchildren.

She gave us personal, lovely gifts before she passed and we were at her bedside the day before she died.

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We knew Odette very well.  Saroukhanoff was Elizabeth's mother's maiden name.  The grandchildren were never very keen on their Russian heritage at all.  Not certain why you are being so keen on all of this.  Do you not get that I spent countless numbers of hours with Tante Lilly?  She lived five minutes from us here, and I spoke with her almost daily and visited her and she was a regular guest here when her health allowed.  She treated me like a grandchild because I was far more interested in her Russian roots and story than her actual grandchildren.

Oh. I don't doubt that both she and her mother were lovely persons with a fascinating story to tell. I am just a nobility junkie who loves to research this minutiæ. And I'm very fascinated by how any background in Imperial Russia seems to spawn some dubious title claims (not necessarily by the emigrés themselves, but by biographers and descendants) à la Anna Anderson and many instances on the forum. I'm amazed by how it can pop up even in the vicinity of someone who knew an actual Grand Duchess.

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'42-WILLIAM EVARTS BENJAMIN, 2D, to Miss Odette de Bruniere, daughter of Countess Elizabeth de Bruniere and the late Count Alfred A. Alexander de Bruniere, on August 5, 1947, at New York.

His ancestor is surely the Napoleonic general Guillaume Dode de la Brunerie, Baron d'Empire, Vicomte, Pair and Marshall of France, Knight of the Order of Saint Alexander Nevsky etc.
So just a little "upgrade" from vicomte to count, just like it happened, sans comparaison, on the way from Ferdinand vicomte de Lesseps to LuAnn "The Countess" Lesseps!