Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations  (Read 294911 times)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #540 on: March 15, 2014, 01:34:44 PM »
I do know that the de Bruniere family were living in Moscow before the Revolution.  The Tarasovs and de Brunieres were close friends.  Elizabeth's mother was able to get her jewels out of Russia with the help of "Comtesse de Bruniere" elder, who held a French passport and so was able to leave Russia during the Revolution.  She took the Tarasov jewelry and sewed the pieces into the lining of her sable muff and kept the jewels until Elizabeth's family managed to get to Paris.  Elizabeth had known Alfred their entire lives and she ended up marrying him in Paris.

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #541 on: March 15, 2014, 01:44:54 PM »
Interesting.

But now I messed it up here: Bruniere is of course not the same as Dode de la Brunerie!
That renders the comital title elusive once again!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 01:49:10 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #542 on: March 15, 2014, 08:12:24 PM »
Here's her obituary:

Elizabeth S. De Bruniere Gale
AUSTIN, Texas -
 Elizabeth Saroukhanoff De Bruniere Gale'; 90, died :.
She was born in Tblisi.
Surviving are her daughter, Odette Terrel pes Clienes; a son Gordon E. Gale; a number of grandchildren; and number of great-grandchildren. Graveside services were held Dec. 4
.at the Red Bluff Plantation in South Carolina. , , .
Remembrances: Christ of The Hills
•Monastery, PO Box 1049,Blanco,Texas
78606. , - •"

Her daughter Odette's obituary (2011) also listed her mother's maiden name as Saroukhanoff.  Elizabeth had made a second marriage to Elbridge Gale. Interestingly, a Bruniere, Fauvre de Bruniere signed the death warrant for King Louis XVI.

Grant Menzies wrote: "The child was the daughter of Comtesse Elizabeth de Bruniere, with whom MP was living in Buenos Aires - EdB was trapped in the US when that country entered WWII, and Odette had to make do with the not very child-loving Grand Duchess.  When it came time to sign off on Odette's report card, Marie signed it as if there were still an imperial
Russia, and as if she hadn't been married to Prince Putiatin." Marie had signed the report card Grand Duchesse Marie de Russie.

Link to Odette's obituary:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/statesman/obituary.aspx?n=odette-terrel-des-chnes&pid=152543685

and a memorial site:
http://rememberingodette.blogspot.com/2011/07/remembering-odette.html

Link to Odette's wedding announcement:
http://fultonhistory.com/Newspapers%20Disk3/Cooperstown%20NY%20Otsego%20Farmer/Cooperstown%20NY%20Otsego%20Farmer%20&%20Republican%20Grayscale%201947%20-%201947%20pdf/Cooperstown%20NY%20Otsego%20Farmer%20&%20Republican%20Grayscale%201947%20-%201947%20-%200268.pdf

Link to a book on Millicent Rogers with a few pages that talk about her friendship with Elizabeth:
http://books.google.com/books?id=WU2LWShbwjsC&lpg=PA210&ots=mRioiITUG5&dq=elizabeth%20de%20Bruniere&pg=PA210#v=onepage&q=elizabeth%20de%20Bruniere&f=false

There was also this bit on a presentation she gave in 1985: "The final program, to be held at 8 P.M. Oct. 23 in the Hurlbutt Gallery on the second floor, is to be given by Elizabeth Saroukhanoff Gale, who fled with her family from Russia to Paris in 1919, when she was 15 years old. Her lecture is titled ''From Georgia to Georgia,'' indicating where she spent the last years in her homeland and the first year in her adopted country. "
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 08:58:05 PM by grandduchessella »
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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #543 on: March 15, 2014, 09:32:40 PM »
The gathering Reception for family and friends after Tante Lilly's funeral was held in our home in Austin.

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #544 on: March 16, 2014, 08:20:34 AM »
Interestingly, a Bruniere, Fauvre de Bruniere signed the death warrant for King Louis XVI.

No, he was called Charles-Benoît Fauvre-Labrunerie and does not seem to have been noble, unless being fils de garde du corps du roi, entreposeur des tabacs  et receveur des décimes du diocèse de Bourges made you noble in ancien-régime France. No evidence of any title for him, from any regime.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #545 on: March 16, 2014, 12:17:59 PM »
Various French annuraires of the nobility list two Brunière families:
- Brulley de la Brunière, from Meaux in the Île-de-la-France, only prominent member Claude-Jean-Joseph Brulley de la Brunière, Bishop of Mende.
- Servanteau de la Brunière, of Chateau de Guizière or Guissière, near La Mothe-Achard in the Vendée. This family seems older, but also untitled.

In addition there is a Chateau de la Brunière in Givre in the Vendée, which belonged to the de Veillechèze de la Mardière family.

And strangely enough there is a 19th century ballet dancer called Jean La Brunière de Médicis alias Ferdinand!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 12:22:13 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #546 on: March 16, 2014, 12:31:48 PM »
- Brulley de la Brunière, from Meaux in the Île-de-la-France, only prominent member Claude-Jean-Joseph Brulley de la Brunière, Bishop of Mende.

We are getting closer to Russia:
A probable relative of his, a Brulley de la Brunière, was a Jesuit missionary in Manchuria in the 1840s. Seems he was murdered by indigenous tribes on the Amur in 1846.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 12:44:58 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #547 on: March 16, 2014, 01:12:02 PM »
The missionary was a wrong track, this must be the family:
http://gw.geneanet.org/mcoeur?lang=nl;p=alfred+alexandre;n=allemand+de+bruniere

Alfred Alexandre Allemand de Brunière, born 5th of October 1899 in Moscow as son of the gantier (glove maker) Joseph Albert Alexandre Allemand de Brunière from Saint-Martin-d'Hères in Isère, France, and Marie-Pauline Guétat. Witnesses to the registration in the French General Consulate: A shirtmaker and another glovemaker. Both father and grandfather glove makers, great grandfather innkeeper, great great grandfather captain in the Republican Army, great great great grandfather commissaire ordonnateur de guerres with a royal pension. Not much sign of a comital title or even nobility!

LOL this is the archetypical apparantly obscure Russian origin = fantastic claims of nobility or imperial descent.

I wonder if HIH knew that her business partner was a fraudulent countess.... Good for her if she didn't care and saw that it was good for business!

Strange how this was randomly confirmed by another site: http://www.frenchinargentina.info/ODETTE-ALLEMAND_DE_BRUNIERE

« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 01:33:04 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #548 on: March 16, 2014, 01:58:43 PM »
great great great grandfather commissaire ordonnateur de guerres with a royal pension. Not much sign of a comital title or even nobility!

It seems that a position as war commissioner did confer / make one eligible for nobility during the Ancien Régime, à la Russian chin, but I think it was a cumbersome and costly registration process that had to be carried out. And of course there is quite a leap between ordinary service nobility and a comital title!

« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 02:04:56 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #549 on: March 16, 2014, 02:06:31 PM »
That is the family.  I just found the arrival record for Buenos Aires.
The ship WESTERN PRINCE arrived on May 31, 1939 to the Port of Buenos Aires, Argentina
ALLEMAND DE BRUNIERE, ELIZABETH    TIFILS    35 years old
ALLEMAND DE BRUNIERE, ODETTE    PARIS    12 years old

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #550 on: March 16, 2014, 02:19:14 PM »
The puzzling question is now: Did Maria Pavlovna know her business partner and flatmate was a rather dubious countess and "the count" the son of a glover who might have shod the hands of her aunt and uncle in Moscow!?

One would imagine that someone who signed report cards as "Grand Duchess of Russia" would not take lightly to bogus titles!

« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 02:24:44 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #551 on: March 16, 2014, 02:41:19 PM »
Lol, this whole saga has wonderful echoes of À la recherche de temps perdu, with its Odette (maiden name unknown, comtesse de Crécy, later baronne de Forcheville, finally madame Swann) and Gilberte, adoptée mademoiselle de Forcheville, later marquise de Saint-Loup. The last volume of Poust's œuvre was published in 1927, the year after the real-life Odette's birth.

A Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna does also feature in the novel, but it's probably MP the Elder in both cases, don't you think? Anyway MP's stepmother is mentioned:

D'ailleurs, un peu plus tard, dans une circonstance plus importante historiquement si elle touchait moins mon coeur, Mme de Guermantes se montra, à mon avis, sous un jour encore plus favorable. Elle qui, jeune fille, avait fait preuve de tant d'impertinente audace, si l'on s'en souvient, à l'égard de la famille impériale de Russie et qui, mariée, leur avait toujours parlé avec une liberté qui la faisait parfois accuser de manque de tact, fut peut-être seule, après la Révolution russe, à faire preuve à l'égard des grandes-duchesses et des grands-ducs d'un dévouement sans bornes. Elle avait, l'année même qui avait précédé la guerre, considérablement agacé la grande-duchesse Wladimir en appelant toujours la comtesse de Hohenfelsen, femme morganatique du grand-duc Paul, « la Grande-Duchesse Paul ». Il n'empêche que la Révolution russe n'eut pas plutôt éclaté que notre ambassadeur à Pétersbourg, M. Paléologue (« Paléo » pour le monde diplomatique, qui a ses abréviations prétendues spirituelles comme l'autre), fut harcelé des dépêches de la duchesse de Guermantes qui voulait avoir des nouvelles de la grande-duchesse Marie Pavlovna. Et pendant longtemps les seules marques de sympathie et de respect que reçut sans cesse cette princesse lui vinrent exclusivement de Mme de Guermantes.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 02:47:47 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #552 on: March 16, 2014, 03:05:55 PM »
I seem to recall Lilly telling me that the de Brunieres owned a glove Factory. The were not sitting in some garret stitching gloves.

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #553 on: March 16, 2014, 03:16:26 PM »
I seem to recall Lilly telling me that the de Brunieres owned a glove Factory. The were not sitting in some garret stitching gloves.

Aha. Well I didn't expect poor artisans, they would hardly have mixed socially with the wealthy and patrician Tarasovs if they were. But "factory" is a bit disappointing... I was imagining an exclusive boutique with Imperial appointments on Moscow's equivalent of Nevsky Prospekt - which would be which street?
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #554 on: March 16, 2014, 03:32:51 PM »
Back to Marie P. I note that Ella's reaction to her childlessness is suggested as the cause of her unsatisfactory relations with Marie, so this does not detract from her 'perfection' in the eyes of some. However, Olga Alexandrovna was also childless during her marriage to Peter of Oldenburg, and with no prospect of children while they remained married. Yet she had a very happy relationship with Nicholas's daughters.

Ann