Author Topic: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations  (Read 294907 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Превед

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1073
  • Мой Великий Север
    • View Profile
    • Type Russian Without a Keyboard
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #555 on: March 16, 2014, 03:44:43 PM »
Back to Marie P. I note that Ella's reaction to her childlessness is suggested as the cause of her unsatisfactory relations with Marie, so this does not detract from her 'perfection' in the eyes of some. However, Olga Alexandrovna was also childless during her marriage to Peter of Oldenburg, and with no prospect of children while they remained married. Yet she had a very happy relationship with Nicholas's daughters.

I think these oft rehashed squabbles pale compared to the fact that MP was business partner with a fake soi-disante countess!

Perhaps that just shows how little empathy she had for the dignity of the comital status of her stepmother and son!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 03:48:54 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Ally Kumari

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Imperial Russia
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #556 on: March 16, 2014, 04:41:11 PM »
Back to Marie P. I note that Ella's reaction to her childlessness is suggested as the cause of her unsatisfactory relations with Marie, so this does not detract from her 'perfection' in the eyes of some. However, Olga Alexandrovna was also childless during her marriage to Peter of Oldenburg, and with no prospect of children while they remained married. Yet she had a very happy relationship with Nicholas's daughters.

Ann

Yes, but the situation was completely different.

Ella loved her husband and wanted to please him in any way possible. I think it is safe to say he loved and adored children and definitely hoped for some of his own. Yet there were none to come out of his marriage. And then someone else´s children are permanently settled in the house with Serge being very possessive and affectionate towards them. I can imagine this must have hurt. Whilst Olga Alexandrovna did not love her husband, did not want children from him or for him, and she was in the end "just" an aunt, while Ella in many way had to become "mother" (and apparently never 100% succeeding in that from many reasons and obstacles). This doesn´t detract from Ella´s image. It just makes her human.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 04:42:53 PM by Ally Kumari »

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #557 on: March 16, 2014, 09:41:48 PM »
Exactly. Ella wasn't a saint and the children was a constant reminder of her failure to have ones of her own. Also Ella had a much easier relationship with Dimitri than MP. In fact one of the things Dimitri took with him to exile was a big portrait of his Aunt Ella, would he took that would him if he disliked her ? Also a nice photo of Ella and Dimitri relaxing does exisit in Charlotte Zeepvat's picture book on the Romanovs. As for MP even her Aunt Minny (sister of her mother) said she was spoilt.

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #558 on: March 17, 2014, 04:19:50 AM »
Ally Kumari

I'm happy to accept that the situation was different.

Maybe I'm just tired of members of the 'Ella was perfect' school blaming everything on Marie P, who was clearly a somewhat difficult person, but in the circumstances that wasn't surprising.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #559 on: March 18, 2014, 01:04:38 AM »
The difference is that Ella "tried" to be perfect but wasn't. She even apologized to MP according to her book. I don't think VMH ever apologized for putting her daughter in the nut house even though Alice never forgot that her own mother abandoned her. Compared with that, I think Ella was pretty close to perfect. But as they say, even saints have their faults.

Offline rachel5a

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #560 on: May 18, 2014, 03:56:54 AM »
It was said before that GD Maria disliked children. I wonder what was her relationship like with GD Dmitri's son Paul-after all that was the son of her beloved brother. Did they stay in touch after GD Dmitri's death in 1942?

Offline Ally Kumari

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Imperial Russia
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #561 on: May 18, 2014, 06:53:03 AM »
I don´t think she "disliked" children, but she was obviously not a motherly type. I wonder if she actually had a mother it would be different, but I tend to believe it was just her personality and even if Alexandra Georgievna lived Maria wouldn´t be overly keen on children anyway. If anything I think her mother´s death and consequent father´s exile taught her not to love too many people because you loose them in course of time.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #562 on: May 20, 2014, 08:38:24 PM »
To put it more simply Marie P had issues with men (from her father, her husbands to her son). Her only devotion to the male species was her brother Dimitri. Her father-in-law & son were more like rescuers in her life. 

Offline rachel5a

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #563 on: May 21, 2014, 05:49:59 AM »
I was only curious about the relationship between aunt and nephew (Paul) if there was some? So little is known about that family. BTW did Paul come to his father second funeral?

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #564 on: May 21, 2014, 10:20:27 PM »
I think so. Paul was pretty open to researchers when he was alive. No not much contact with other Romanovs I think.

Offline rachel5a

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #565 on: August 23, 2014, 02:32:31 AM »
What was Maria´s standing in the Romanov family in exile anyway? Did she maintain contact and relationship with anyone else besides her brother?


The Romanov clan lined up in opposition with her, not that was a war but  a moral condemnation. She had a contact with her half-sisters Irina and Natalia and I think that's all her real realtionships with her Romanov relatives. She was really alone, she understood well her "outsider" position, she was quite frank in her memoirs when she said that the clan threw her out...Recently I read a reaction of GDsses Xenia and Olga A. on MP's memoirs - they spoke as if in a single voice that the memoirs were disgusting, obviuosly they didn't approve MP's style of writing and her point of view on many events and people.
I think she had a good relationship with GD Andrei and his wife Mathilde, there ia even a picture of them together

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #566 on: August 24, 2014, 02:01:32 AM »
Don't think she was close to Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna.

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1959
  • Olga.Tatiana.Maria.Anastasia + Alexei
    • View Profile
    • Romanovs of Russia
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #567 on: August 24, 2014, 04:13:13 PM »
Personally I don't think Maria Pavlovna Jr was close to anyone expt for her brother.

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #568 on: August 25, 2014, 12:11:40 AM »
Personally I don't think Maria Pavlovna Jr was close to anyone expt for her brother.

I tend to agree with your remark.

Margarita Nelipa


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline rachel5a

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations
« Reply #569 on: August 25, 2014, 09:38:05 AM »
Personally I don't think Maria Pavlovna Jr was close to anyone expt for her brother.
And how did he  feel about that?