Author Topic: Abdication  (Read 8779 times)

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Offline AlexP@asia.com

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Re: Abdication
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2006, 11:47:19 AM »
First, let's  look  at  the semantics of the  Abdcation Notice.

As for the debate on "transfer" ([ch1087][ch1077][ch1088][ch1077][ch1085][ch1077][ch1089][ch1090][ch1080]) vs. "handover", without a Russian etymological dictionary in hand which might confirm the meaning of this word in 1917 (what a caveat this is!), in this particular case I would unabashedly agree with David.

Firstly, one minion "transfers" power to another minion.  One minister "transfers" his powers to another minister.

The Emperor, given His Station, would have been above a "transfer" of powers. The Emperor, as Autocrat of All the Russias, gave and made the laws, from his own hands, so to speak.  In this case, and with this linguistic approach, the Emperor need only "hand over" from One Imperial Hand to Another Hand.

There is just not a language here, in all its forms, there is also linguistic structure, and the notion of 19th Century class and structure is involved here.

Point One.

Now Point Two.  David, IMHO, is absolutely correct in asserting that there was no legal foundation in the Fundamental Laws for a horizontal abidication.  The Fundamental Laws provided for a vertical transition of power.   If not, any given Emperor or Empress upon His or Her death bed could have handed over His or Her power to a brother, an uncle, etc., etc.  What Nicholas did, for whatever reasons, was severely flawed even by the Fundamental Laws His own family established.

Point Two.

Next, therein remains the question "why".  This is pure intellectual speculation but by this point-in-time, Nicholas was decidedly not acting lucidly (had he ever is another question).  I would like to ask anyone if it were not possible that Nicholas actually suffered from apraxia.  He was incapable of making and maintaining a coherent decision; he was war-fatigued in the extreme; he indulged himself in many forms of what-we-know-are medicinal treatments which can actually alter or impair the normal cognitive processes and the higher motor skills.

Finally, Nicholas had mentally and morally ceded all power-making decisions to his exceptionally strong-willed but somewhat intellectually limited Empress who herself was actually a major part-and-parcel of the disaster looming on the horizon.

End of point three.

Those are my thoughts in any case.

All the Best,


Alex P.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AlexP@asia.com »
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David_Pritchard

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Re: Abdication
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2006, 12:43:46 PM »
Dear AlexP.,

Thank you for your insight on this matter.

After you mentioned the need to research the word [ch1087][ch1077][ch1088][ch1077][ch1085][ch1077][ch1089][ch1090][ch1080] and what it meant in 1918, I consulted an all but forgotten book in my collection, English-Russian Comprehensive Law Dictionary by A. S. Mamulyan & S. Yu. Kashkin, Moscow, 1993.

This book listed the word [ch1087][ch1077][ch1088][ch1077][ch1085][ch1077][ch1089][ch1090][ch1080] as meaning variously: transmit, transfer, hand over, hand down, etc. I suppose that we would need an expert in Russian to explain the exact meaning of this word, taking into consideration the tenses and cases used in the phrase (which are far beyond my understanding). I suppose that a Russian-English dictionary from before the Revolution would be very useful. I will now be watching for one to be put up for sale on the Internet.

Another key word in the abdication is [ch1085][ch1072][ch1089][ch1083][ch1077][ch1076]i[ch1077] which appears in the law dictionary variously as inheritance, legacy, (other dictionaries offer even more definitions) again, historico-etymological understanding is needed to translate this word properly.

David

Offline Belochka

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Re: Abdication
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2006, 09:53:35 PM »
Quote
First, let's  look  at  the semantics of the  Abdcation Notice.

As for the debate on "transfer" ([ch1087][ch1077][ch1088][ch1077][ch1085][ch1077][ch1089][ch1090][ch1080]) vs. "handover", without a Russian etymological dictionary in hand which might confirm the meaning of this word in 1917 (what a caveat this is!), in this particular case I would unabashedly agree with David.

Firstly, one minion "transfers" power to another minion.  One minister "transfers" his powers to another minister.

The Emperor, given His Station, would have been above a "transfer" of powers. The Emperor, as Autocrat of All the Russias, gave and made the laws, from his own hands, so to speak.  In this case, and with this linguistic approach, the Emperor need only "hand over" from One Imperial Hand to Another Hand.

There is just not a language here, in all its forms, there is also linguistic structure, and the notion of 19th Century class and structure is involved here.

Alex P.

I do not read the word <<[ch1087][ch1077][ch1088][ch1077][ch1085][ch1077][ch1089][ch1090][ch1080]>> as "handover". What Nikolai was capable of Willing was to "submit" his Will.

The Abdication document can not be viewed as a contract which can stipulate transfer/handover of "property" from one individual to another.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Abdication
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2006, 10:34:39 PM »
Quote
 This is pure intellectual speculation but by this point-in-time, Nicholas was decidedly not acting lucidly (had he ever is another question).  I would like to ask anyone if it were not possible that Nicholas actually suffered from apraxia.  He was incapable of making and maintaining a coherent decision; he was war-fatigued in the extreme; he indulged himself in many forms of what-we-know-are medicinal treatments which can actually alter or impair the normal cognitive processes and the higher motor skills.

Alex P.

[size=10]Firstly, I would submit that Nikolai was lucid in what he was about to do: the act of abdication. Above all his Imperial Will as Russia's Commander-in-Chief was victory for Imperial Russia. His decision IMHO was based not on political criteria but on military grounds. The unique situation whereby he had lost the support of his Shtab was his primary concern. In his sincere attempt to address the wrong that flowed against not himself as the Head of State, but her Commander-in-Chief, he abdicated for the good of Imperial Russia.

Secondly, I would be concerned about any suggestion that Nikolai suffered from the neurological disorder Apraxia. There was no evidence that he suffered from motor dysfunction that can be the result of underlying disease. [/size]


[ch1052][ch1072][ch1088][ch1075][ch1072][ch1088][ch1080][ch1090][ch1072]  


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