Author Topic: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3  (Read 254164 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #765 on: August 11, 2010, 07:28:20 AM »
Well...to his credit he did try to reach out to Diana and seemed to be more sympathetic to her than the Queen in the begining.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #766 on: August 11, 2010, 07:53:42 AM »
And then there was that incident in China....

Offline ashdean

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #767 on: August 11, 2010, 08:14:18 AM »
Well...to his credit he did try to reach out to Diana and seemed to be more sympathetic to her than the Queen in the begining.
Actually Philip comes out of the Diana debacle very well....no more so than when to support his grandsons ( and no doubt to show solidarity with his son) he walked behind her coffin with the loathsome Lord Spencer

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #768 on: August 11, 2010, 08:29:08 AM »
Indeed. Philip tried to reach out to her perhaps remembering what his mother went through. The Queen however did not understand as she came from a move loving family.

Offline Grace

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #769 on: August 11, 2010, 08:39:57 AM »
Well, I guess the Queen's Personal Mind Reader would know these things!

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #770 on: August 11, 2010, 08:52:01 AM »
Well...She grew up in a loving family and in good health so she expects others to be the same. I think she felt the same way towards her sister Margaret too...

Offline Margot

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #771 on: August 13, 2010, 02:55:30 AM »
Yet on at least one occasion the Queen has been obliged to say what the people purportedly wanted to hear, as demonstrated by her the 'As a Grandmother...' speech in September 1997! The Queen just doesn't do it habitually, but rather, when she absolutely has to! She isn't the one seeking a job or position, she is merely one trying to hang on to a job/position she only occupies by accident of birth! When needs must, even the Queen knows when it is time to compromise and use sound bytes! That infamous speech demonstrated just how far the Queen was willing go when necessary, to try and safe guard her position and say what was required even if she herself did not write the entire speech which she gave!

Yes. But most devoted mothers will do whatever it takes. One of the lessons learnt from the moving reaction after the death of Diana is that as the mother of the country, you will have to respond when there is general mourning in the country. After that The Queen became very sensative to the mood of her people.

Call me cynical but I noticed this debate about whether the Queen responds and bends to the demands of the people that has been going on this week and remembered that I posted a comment about the Queen's ability to 'bite the bullet so to speak' ages ago! Back in May no one seemed very keen to explore the Queen's ability to adapt and yield when needs must or are perceived to, hence I was delighted to see others have started to explore this aspect now!

Saying that, I believe that in the case of 1997 and the Crash Contagion phenomena the Queen wasn't just responding to what a 'portion' of the 'people' demanded but more probably and importantly was motivated to do the 'As a Grandmother..' speech to counter the the increasingly pernicious and successfully self serving frenzy that was being whipped up by the British media to deflect attention from themselves and onto the Palace and the 'Grumpy Queen' closeted away 'ignoring' her people, whilst the Nation 'apparently' descended into week long orgy of of hair raking and breast beating grief.

The film The Queen seems to be regarded in some quarters as being rather persuasive of what may have happened, although I tend to recall plenty of 'People' recognizing that the 'Where's the Flag' headlines and 'Show us you care' campaigns in the press at the time as a deplorable ploy to incite a frenzy fed and fueled by the press to deflect attention from their obvious culpability in the events of the evening/early morning of 30-31st August. Many many people, myself included, recognized what the media was doing at the time. But saying that, the Queen probably felt that there was a danger there and she made that speech! Not so much a case of what the majority of people wanted or expected, but a way to neuter a problem before it was allowed to flourish and blossom out of control!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 02:58:42 AM by Margot »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #772 on: August 13, 2010, 03:12:51 AM »
Well...She grew up in a loving family and in good health so she expects others to be the same. I think she felt the same way towards her sister Margaret too...

But Margaret grew up in the same family..... What you are saying is that the Queen exepects everybody to feel like herself. A most human failing, of course. The problem is of course just that few fellow humans may feel as she does, as an anointed sovereign.......

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #773 on: August 13, 2010, 03:30:50 AM »
I think the difference between Elizabeth and Margaret was that Elizabeth saw responsibility as the cost of privilege while Margaret saw privilege that was seperated from responsibility.

Offline Adagietto

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #774 on: August 13, 2010, 04:27:18 AM »
Agreed, they were entirely different in that respect; though, to be fair, Margaret mightnot  have been quite so irresponsible if she had had to take on serious responsibilities like the Queen.

Margot's account of the circumstances of the Queen's 'As a grandmother' speech seems spot on to me; she skilfully defused a very unpleasant situation, for which the irresponsible (and entirely hypocritical) behaviour of the media was largely to blame.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #775 on: August 13, 2010, 05:45:39 AM »
I am sure that Princess Margaret was offered lots of opportunities to serve her country.

Offline Adagietto

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #776 on: August 13, 2010, 10:07:09 AM »
She preferred to serve on the beaches of the Caribbean.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #777 on: August 13, 2010, 10:25:30 AM »
Yes both she and Britain agreed it was the best possible option.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #778 on: August 13, 2010, 11:15:57 AM »
I think Margaret felt she did her duty to the nation due to the Townsend situation. She felt they owed her her happiness. The Queen have a great marriage that works.

Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #779 on: August 13, 2010, 12:13:30 PM »
I suspect the truth of the matter is that members of the Royal family would tend favour consensus, and dislike any brand of politics that is seen as being unduly divisive; if it is true that the Queen felt uncomfortable about Mrs Thatcher's brand of politics, that would have been the reason, not because she is personally 'left of centre ' in her views. In so far as the 'right' in Britain is defined in terms of Thatcherism, I would agree with contantinople to the extent that they would probably feel little sympathy with that; but that is not the dominant force in Conservative politics at the moment, and I doubt they would prefer a Labour government to the present one.

But the present government is anything but a "consensus" government. Love or hate her, Thatcher at least obtained landslide majorities and made her intentions absolutely clear. The current Conservative government campaigned on a manifesto which revealed none of their plans, nevertheless failed to obtain a majority, came to office backed up by a party whose voters by and large thought they were voting for completely different policies, and are pursuing a massively radical right-wing social and economic experiment at break-neck speed, all backed by whining claims that they are being "forced" to do it by circumstance. Some may consider that consensus, but I consider it dishonest, divisive and foolhardy in the extreme. If I were the Queen I would be extremely concerned at what is happening: Thatcher at least understood the basic rule that if you are running a country you should not alienate

a) the executive branch of government

and

b) the police.

otherwise what do we fall back on? Vigilantes? Is that what is meant by "the Big Society"?

Anyway, back to topic.....
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 12:16:42 PM by Janet Ashton »
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many; they are few.