Author Topic: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3  (Read 263224 times)

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Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #975 on: May 25, 2011, 03:50:34 PM »
According to Debrett's, official protocol / etiquette dictates that in carrying out a toast to the Queen, the toaster will rise and request the audience's attention. Once accomplished and the guests are standing, the host raises his or her glass and recites the title of the person being toasted, without any other words or music.   So for example:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, Her Majesty The Queen." or
"Ladies and Gentlemen, Her Majesty The Queen, Head of the Commonwealth."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, Her Majesty The Queen, Duke of Lancaster" (in Lancaster)
etc.

The same official etiquette exists in the US.  The US armed forces toast to the president is simply "The President of the United States."  So this is not something the President should be unfamiliar with.

The error was that the President should not have planned to say anything else after reciting the toast.  Even the orchestra knew that, and that's why they struck up the anthem the moment they heard those words.

Offline Douglas

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #976 on: May 25, 2011, 05:27:38 PM »
According to Debrett's, official protocol / etiquette dictates that in carrying out a toast to the Queen, the toaster will rise and request the audience's attention. Once accomplished and the guests are standing, the host raises his or her glass and recites the title of the person being toasted, without any other words or music.   So for example:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, Her Majesty The Queen." or
"Ladies and Gentlemen, Her Majesty The Queen, Head of the Commonwealth."
"Ladies and Gentlemen, Her Majesty The Queen, Duke of Lancaster" (in Lancaster)
etc.

The same official etiquette exists in the US.  The US armed forces toast to the president is simply "The President of the United States."  So this is not something the President should be unfamiliar with.

The error was that the President should not have planned to say anything else after reciting the toast.  Even the orchestra knew that, and that's why they struck up the anthem the moment they heard those words.


OK, then the bandmaster properly assumed the President was not going to "add"  something to his toast and therefore he began the anthem.

 From what I have heard, toasts to the Queen are  by protocol to be very short, as in "A toast to The Queen."    The toast is not supposed to be another speech.

The President also made a second mistake in asking that glasses be raised. One would raise glasses after the Anthem?

I assume the Queen had heard his command to raise glasses and she turned to him and told him to put down his glass!  I guess the Pres. staff had not rehearsed him or he did not understand his card notes on  the order of events.  Even the palace should should have asked if the Pres. had been told the protocol for a toast.  I would imagine the Queen was not perturbed.

We're all practicing this at my home this evening here in the US.

I toast you Chris for your attention to detail in this matter.....!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 05:58:14 PM by Douglas »

Offline Emperor of the Dominions

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #977 on: May 25, 2011, 05:58:51 PM »
"Their sphere is so focused on political jockeying and the next election, they are often unable to speak (or act) without it coming across like a campaign event.  And that becomes painfully clear when they participate in diplomatic or statesmanship activities, and even more painfully clear when compared to the impeccably flawless statesmanship exercised by the British royal court".

And there is the stark difference between Monarchy and a Republic! However any gaffes there may have taken place,  been may be forgiven due to our special relationship.

R. i.

God save the Queen !

Offline Lucien

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #978 on: May 26, 2011, 01:15:28 AM »
Perhaps, although having watched the president speak, I was left wishing that his protocol officers would had reviewed his speech ahead of time.  Perhaps somebody might have informed his speech writer that the words  "Her Majesty The Queen" is supposed to be the END of the toast.  

Upon hearing those words, the obviously well-trained palace orchestra promptly struck up God Save the Queen - yet the President just kept talking for another few sentences - and ended up talking OVER the anthem.  Bad form Mr. President.

The director of the band thought the President had finished his speech,which was not the case,hence the mishap with the Anthem.
That's all that happened.The poor director received some "headwind" for the gaf yesterday no doubt....

But then people seem to easily wander off to their own wrong perceptions.... ;D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 01:23:46 AM by Lucien »
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Offline Douglas

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #979 on: May 26, 2011, 03:30:40 AM »
Perhaps, although having watched the president speak, I was left wishing that his protocol officers would had reviewed his speech ahead of time.  Perhaps somebody might have informed his speech writer that the words  "Her Majesty The Queen" is supposed to be the END of the toast.  

Upon hearing those words, the obviously well-trained palace orchestra promptly struck up God Save the Queen - yet the President just kept talking for another few sentences - and ended up talking OVER the anthem.  Bad form Mr. President.

The director of the band thought the President had finished his speech,which was not the case,hence the mishap with the Anthem.
That's all that happened.The poor director received some "headwind" for the gaf yesterday no doubt....

But then people seem to easily wander off to their own wrong perceptions.... ;D

The bandmaster is not at fault.  I explained this above.  The President actually made two mistakes.    The Pres. had finished his speech.  Then he asked all to rise.....and that is where the problems began.  From that point on, the Pres, was a bit lost as to the proper procedure......

Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #980 on: May 26, 2011, 10:49:01 AM »
And there is the stark difference between Monarchy and a Republic! However any gaffes there may have taken place,  been may be forgiven due to our special relationship.
R. i.

Quite so, while the media (and me as well, for that matter) made a big deal of the issue, it truly was merely an unintended gaffe which pales in comparison to the many good images that this visit has offered. 

For my part, I apologize for my strong reaction, which was not because the President flubbed the toast (it happens), but because he continued to speak over the anthem instead of just falling silent.  I hold my anthem quite sacred, and bristle when people show disrespect during it by talking, eating, clapping etc.  So when I saw my president appearing to treat God Save the Queen like background music during a State Banquet and standing next to the Queen, I cringed in embarrassment.  Enough said on the matter.

Offline Douglas

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #981 on: May 26, 2011, 02:55:31 PM »
And there is the stark difference between Monarchy and a Republic! However any gaffes there may have taken place,  been may be forgiven due to our special relationship.
R. i.

Quite so, while the media (and me as well, for that matter) made a big deal of the issue, it truly was merely an unintended gaffe which pales in comparison to the many good images that this visit has offered.  

For my part, I apologize for my strong reaction, which was not because the President flubbed the toast (it happens), but because he continued to speak over the anthem instead of just falling silent.  I hold my anthem quite sacred, and bristle when people show disrespect during it by talking, eating, clapping etc.  So when I saw my president appearing to treat God Save the Queen like background music during a State Banquet and standing next to the Queen, I cringed in embarrassment.  Enough said on the matter.

Sadly Mr. Obama has no idea what a national anthem is, even his own.  His whole attitude was clearly revealed after the Queen properly refused the initial toast while God Save The Queen played.  He instantly put on his most extreme pout face, stuck his nose in the air and glared at the audience.  Think about it.  He was the invited guest of honor and he acts like a spoiled brat.   It was chilling.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 03:05:35 PM by Douglas »

Offline Grace

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #982 on: May 26, 2011, 03:11:30 PM »
Surely he would have been advised on protocol beforehand as indeed the Queen is before she visits foreign shores...or is the American President considered above that?

Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #983 on: May 26, 2011, 04:13:59 PM »
Doug, in the interests of giving him the benefit of the doubt, is it not possible that what you interpreted as a pout face might actually have been embarrassment once he realized his error?  None of us know exactly what was going on in his mind.

Grace, I don't necessarily think it's a matter of anybody believing the president is "above" anything.  I just think that protocol is simply not considered to the same degree in the US as it is in other countries.  It certainly isn't adhered to very often here, I'm sad to say.   If you compare our State of Union Address to the State Opening of Parliament, we look like a bunch of school children pretending to be important :(

I did have to chuckle at your comment about the Queen being advised on matters of protocol.  There isn't a living soul on earth more experienced or better versed in protocol than she is.  I mean, sure, if she were visiting a remote nation with a distinctly different culture, she might need reminders on a few things (colors / words or actions that might offend).  But what made me chuckle was a picture in my mind of an eager young new aide attempting to give Her Majesty advice on proper behavior like giving a toast to a western president.  I could only imagine the cold stare that aide might receive in return. :~)

Offline Grace

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #984 on: May 26, 2011, 04:27:11 PM »
I am well aware HM is more versed in protocol than anyone else on the planet after almost 60 years on the throne, Chris, I am not that naive.  >:(  

She wasn't in her early days though but she didn't make mistakes because she learnt what to do...same as Obama should have done before he met her.

Offline Douglas

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #985 on: May 26, 2011, 04:57:51 PM »
Chris, I suggest that that people take a close look at the video link I posted above and come to your own conclusions.

From what I have heard,  the President is advised on protocol all the time.  The problem is that he doesn't listen or remember it.  I suspect he feels he's above such matters and  now we have film proof  of it with his performance at the Queen's table.  He should become an actor.  His attitude as portrayed was Oscar material.

 His grandparents treated him like Little Lord Fauntleroy.  Sent him to expensive private schools and colleges, always paid his way, etc.  Nothing wrong with that.  The only problem  is that his actual identity has come into the light of day and it will be his eventual undoing.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 04:59:28 PM by Douglas »

Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #986 on: May 27, 2011, 07:21:33 AM »
I am well aware HM is more versed in protocol than anyone else on the planet after almost 60 years on the throne, Chris, I am not that naive.  >:(  
She wasn't in her early days though but she didn't make mistakes because she learnt what to do...same as Obama should have done before he met her.

My apologies Grace, my post certainly was not intended to offend..... I was only observing the funny image that had popped into my head....

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #987 on: May 27, 2011, 08:50:11 AM »
Surely he would have been advised on protocol beforehand as indeed the Queen is before she visits foreign shores...or is the American President considered above that?

This one thinks he is, it appears, not only from this event, but as reflected in many other examples of straying from standard protocols.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #988 on: June 02, 2011, 09:35:23 AM »

59 Years ago today,the Coronation of HM Queen Elizabeth II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI0YOPoj4t0&feature=related

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Offline Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #989 on: June 04, 2011, 06:09:05 PM »
The whole crew out in full force (and looking their best) at The Derby.  Nice to the see the family in one place.  







-Duke of NJ
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 06:12:07 PM by Duke of New Jersey »