Author Topic: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures  (Read 204490 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2005, 01:36:04 AM »
I have written a biographical sketch of George for possible inclusion in Arturo's  Grand Dukes book which I believe will be coming out later this year.

Offline Eurohistory

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1916
    • View Profile
    • Eurohistory.com
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2005, 09:44:21 AM »
And a nice biography it is Lisa...congrats!

The Grand Dukes: The sons and grandsons of Russia's Tsars is scheduled to come out in July 2005.  Famed Romanov author, Zoia Belyakova, signed on last week to be also a contributing author in the book!

Arturo Beéche
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Eurohistory »
--
Arturo Beéche, Publisher
http://erhj.blogspot.com
European Royal History Journal
Kensington House Books
6300 Kensington Ave.
East Richmond Heights, CA 94805 USA
510/236-1730
books@eurohistory.com
http://www.eurohistory.com

Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2005, 10:37:55 AM »
some portraits...


Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2005, 10:38:25 AM »

Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2005, 10:38:57 AM »
and younger...

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2005, 11:32:51 AM »
Quote

...[in part]....

But that's balanced again George's time in the Caucasus, where he was said to have contracted not one but two morganatic marriages, the first with a native Caucasian woman in 1893 shortly after arriving at Abbas Touman.  The union, said to have produced a child, was dissolved after two years.  In 1894, he was believed to have contracted a second morganatic marriage, this time with a local woman, Mlle. Orkovska, who bore him two sons and a daughter.  These children, allegedly given the surname of Romanovsky, as well as firm evidence to support either of the two unions, disappeared after the Revolution.  I do know one gentleman who lives in the United States and says he is a grandson, I think.  I've never asked for evidence, but he has provided it to some well-placed friends who have no doubt that his claim is true.  Of course, having offspring doesn't preclude one being gay-witness Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich or Felix Yusupov.  But there are a number of claims about George that will probably never be resolved, given the lack of documentation.

Greg King


I wonder what the ages of Georg's children would be when Nicholas II abdicated in 1917.

I'm not near any books today, so,  I hope someone might pull out the death date of Georg.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2005, 11:36:41 AM »
Quote
Just my two cents on Grand Duke Georgy's alleged marriage: in the Enciclopedia Universal Europeo Americana, a very reliable and most detailed encyclopaedia published in 70 volumes in Madrid in 1905-1930, which is full of biographical data on royals, it is said that Grand Duke Georgy Alexandrovich "married morganatically princess Orkowska, who gave him three children". When I first read that in the encyclopaedia, I thought it was just a mistake, since the Gotha and other reliable sources made no mention of such wedding. However, reading Mr. Greg King's post, now I guess it was a somehow widespread rumor in the early XXth century.
Who made mlle. Orkowska a princess for the encyclopaedia, that I don't know...


The name Orkowska rings a bell.  Anyone reconize this family name?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2005, 11:47:30 AM »
Quote

...[in part]....

But that's balanced again George's time in the Caucasus, where he was said to have contracted not one but two morganatic marriages, the first with a native Caucasian woman in 1893 shortly after arriving at Abbas Touman.  The union, said to have produced a child, was dissolved after two years.  In 1894, he was believed to have contracted a second morganatic marriage, this time with a local woman, Mlle. Orkovska, who bore him two sons and a daughter.  These children, allegedly given the surname of Romanovsky, as well as firm evidence to support either of the two unions, disappeared after the Revolution.  I do know one gentleman who lives in the United States and says he is a grandson, I think.  I've never asked for evidence, but he has provided it to some well-placed friends who have no doubt that his claim is true.  Of course, having offspring doesn't preclude one being gay-witness Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich or Felix Yusupov.  But there are a number of claims about George that will probably never be resolved, given the lack of documentation.

Greg King


I wonder what the ages of Georg's children would be when Nicholas II abdicated in 1917.



AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

helenazar

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2005, 11:59:41 AM »
Quote
I remember reading somewhere that George's remains were exhumed, did this have anything to do with the DNA tests for the bones found, which were then believed to be the Romanovs? I'm asuming it was.


Yes, George's remains were exhumed in order to do comparison DNA testing with the remains thought to be Nicholas II's. This test confirmed that these remains were those of Nicholas.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2005, 01:03:16 PM »
I'm glad you drew my attention to GD Georg.  So, thank you.  :)

Here is another post:
Quote
Just my two cents on Grand Duke Georgy's alleged marriage: in the Enciclopedia Universal Europeo Americana, a very reliable and most detailed encyclopaedia published in 70 volumes in Madrid in 1905-1930, which is full of biographical data on royals, it is said that Grand Duke Georgy Alexandrovich "married morganatically princess Orkowska, who gave him three children". When I first read that in the encyclopaedia, I thought it was just a mistake, since the Gotha and other reliable sources made no mention of such wedding. However, reading Mr. Greg King's post, now I guess it was a somehow widespread rumor in the early XXth century.
Who made mlle. Orkowska a princess for the encyclopaedia, that I don't know...


So, Georg had two wives and four children before his death:
After spending his final years remote from the court, Georgy Alexandrovich died at Abas-Tuman on 28 June 1899.  So, by 1918 the four children would have been older than 17 years of age.

Surly someone must know about these children.  The eldest would have been abt. 24.  Do we know if the first child was a girl or a boy?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Sarai_Porretta

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2005, 03:12:45 PM »
Quote
I'm not near any books today, so,  I hope someone might pull out the death date of Georg.


He died on July 10, 1899.

Modified to say: This is the new style date, actually. The old style date is June 28, 1899.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sarai_Porretta »

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2024
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2005, 09:04:19 PM »
However, if he'd been married, (and surely it would have got to be known), and it wasn't to someone Royal, he could not have remained as tsarevich. So I am disinclined to believe those rumours.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2005, 07:19:09 PM »
Here is what Penny wrote about one of the great grandson's of GD George:

Quote

... in part...

At least one of them did.  A grandson (or great-grandson, I forget which) lives out West here.  This is the man with the impeccable references that Greg mentioned.  There's virtually no doubt that this little family is the real deal.

...


So, he was married and did have  at least one surviving child who lived to be an adult  who had child... who had a child.....

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2024
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 02:10:03 PM »
If so, (and I guess if need be they could check by DNA) would not this man have greater claim on the (vacant) Russian throne than any other pretender? (or would the presumed illegitimacy of his ancestor preclude this).

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 02:56:14 PM »
The children of Georg's were born within "morgantic" marriages.  Those born within these rules agree before marriage that their issue does not inherited rights, titles and properties which they would had the marriage been given the permission of the Tsar.  In legal terms,  no,  Georg's children were not part of the succession to the throne.  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152