Author Topic: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence  (Read 128672 times)

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katieann

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2004, 10:38:19 AM »
Rskkyia

Thanks for your input.  I kind of half-doubted my own theory; but still wondered if this was a possible scenario.  I don't know where the children ended up, but I do hope they are still together.

Best wishes

Kathleen

Offline Antonio_P.Caballer

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2004, 10:45:09 AM »
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Also, they said that they built a second fire over the remains of the first and then buried that to disguise what was going on. There may not have been much left.  Another possibility about the remains is this.  Woodash when soaked with water turns into Lye.  Given the remains of the first two were buried underneath quite a large amount of wood ash, every time it rained lye would have soaked the remains and made short work of what was left....
Again, my opinion, but I think it follows plausibly.


But if this was the way they did it, should not be some trace in the soil of the lye? Well i really do not know how to explain what i mean, but the soil was analized(tested?), so they would have noticed something like that, no?

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2004, 10:52:59 AM »
After seventy years of Siberian winters and thawing in summers? Im not sure how much would have remained in the soil...An expert would have to answer that.

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2004, 07:17:37 PM »
I think i know what happened in many of my books it says ' they burned the bodies' and maybe Alexei and Maria's bodies were destroyed, burn to ashes.

I know it awful for me to say, but maybe it true!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 09:37:09 AM by Alixz »

Annie

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2004, 09:15:11 PM »
I was surprised to read in the book "Little Mother Russia" that 2 bodies supposed to be those of the missing Imperial children had been found near Ekaterinburg and were awaiting DNA testing?  ???

On page 357, it states:

The remains of Alexei and the missing Grand Duchess, who the Russians still insist is Marie, are now believed to have been discovered near Ekaterinburg and are awaiting DNA testing.

This book was published in 1999. Have the bodies since been found not to be Romanovs, are they still awaiting testing, or was it a rumor? Do any of you experts know the answers?

Abby

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2004, 09:49:54 PM »
I have never heard of this?!
It must not be totally reliable, or else it would have been bigger news. Hmmm.
Interesting!

Offline Greg_King

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2004, 04:50:47 AM »
Coryne's book went to press just as one of the many (false) claims regarding the whereabouts of the two missing bodies received media attention; there have been, as far as I know, at least 3 subsequent claims that the missing remains were located, all of which were rather quickly shown to be false.

Greg King

Annie

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2004, 11:48:02 AM »
Thanks for clearing that up Greg. I guess a lot of  people were killed and buried in those days in that area so they might find a lot of bodies but they aren't the right ones.

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2004, 11:44:19 AM »
I read "Little Mother of Russia" and I remember reading that part and thinking is it possible?
At this point I find it very unlikly the missing two bodies will ever be found. Sad to think so, but very likely.
One can only hope the entire family is together in the after life, since their remains apperantly will never be

JonC

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2004, 02:05:51 PM »
Speaking about 'other people who were killed around that time' I believe I read in one of the books,,maybe from Massie that the bodies could have been from an Industrialist's family which resembled that of the Royal family. Could this be true? Just making discussion. I hope my two cents makes sense.

Annie

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2004, 03:24:29 PM »
I think that theory went out the window when the DNA tests on the bones proved they were the IF and their servants.

Maybe some of those false leads were the industrialist's family.

Offline Alice

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2004, 05:48:02 AM »
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Do not forget that Yurovsky reports:"I drove to Voikov, head of supply in the Urals, to get petrol or kerosene, sulphuric acid too (to disfigure the faces) and, besides that, spades. I commandeered ten carts without drivers from the prison. Everything was loaded on and we drove off."
Petrol or Kerosene will create a fire of MUCH more heat and intensity than an ordinary "bonfire".  It is very possible that the fire reached sufficient temperatures.  The main problem, IMO, is that it took too much petrol to burn everyone sufficiently, which is why they abandoned the effort.

Also, they said that they built a second fire over the remains of the first and then buried that to disguise what was going on. There may not have been much left.  Another possibility about the remains is this.  Woodash when soaked with water turns into Lye.  Given the remains of the first two were buried underneath quite a large amount of wood ash, every time it rained lye would have soaked the remains and made short work of what was left....
Again, my opinion, but I think it follows plausibly.


Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I don't think it's possible that the fire reached sufficient temperatures to destroy two bodies. Kerosene and/or petrol will certainly make the fire more intense, but it wouldnt've made much of a difference, temperature-wise, because they were burning in a forest, with plenty of air, which would allow for much of the heat to escape. They would've been charred, but no way would this fire have been hot enough to destroy bones, etc.

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The site was severely tampered with on all occassions, starting with the process of disposal. When some fragments were found and removed by Sokolov in 1918, then I believe the physical contamination of the site commenced at that time. Are we really certain that others did not follow the same path of discovery before Avdonin did in 1979?


We're talking two sets of human remains here, not fragments. And Sokolov didn't excavate or attempt to exacavate the grave in Pig's Meadow. He focused predominantly on the Four Brothers.

The problem I have with the "removal of two of the bodies from the mass grave after the murders" is that it would've had to've been very recently after the murders, otherwise there'd be just bones, and how do you successfully tell which bones belong to who, to successfully remove two sets of remains completely, leaving behind no teeth, nothing? It's just not plausible (or possible). Moreover, why would you remove only two sets, leaving the others?

Dandywell

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2004, 04:54:13 PM »
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I think i know what happened in many of my books it says ' they burned the bodies' and maybe Alexei and Maria's bodies were distoryed, burn to ashes.

I know it awful for me to say, but mabye it true!


I doubt that. First of all, there has been a number of evidence given in this discussion about what it would have taken to burn the bodies, which proves it to be very unlikely. Also, those documents might of been made to cover up the truth, and make it seem like the Bolsheviks had it under control when they noticed two missing people. Honestly, I don't know when, if ever, we will know the truth.

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2004, 04:59:15 PM »
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I doubt that. First of all, there has been a number of evidence given in this discussion about what it would have taken to burn the bodies, which proves it to be very unlikely. Also, those documents might of been made to cover up the truth, and make it seem like the Bolsheviks had it under control when they noticed two missing people. Honestly, I don't know when, if ever, we will know the truth.


To tell you " I don't know what happened!!!! That all I think what happend.   >:(

Dandywell

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Re: Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2004, 05:12:32 PM »
I wasn't trying to force my opinions on you, and I'm sorry if I offended you. :)