Pig's Meadow - The graves - The evidence

[AlexeiLVR]

Ok I was writing in my diary about what I've learned about the Romanovs today and then some thing came to my head!

We all know that Alexei's and Anastasia's bodies were never found, but Yurovsky said that he buried them right underneath the big fire with with they tried to cremate Alexei and Anastasia but failed. So wouldn't it be pretty easy to find their missing bodies?

And when did Yurovsky tell the public where he buried the bodies?  

[Mgmstl]

Yurovsky, never told the public what he did with the bodies.  Some people had to know in Moscow, and it was evident that the grave had been opened once or twice before the remains were finally exhumed.

However in Yurovsky different letters/files/statements, his stories vary about what he did with the bodies, and which bodies.  

In Radzinsky's "The Last Tsar"  I remember reading that he thought that it was at some point when the trucks were parked at a guard shack that the bodies came up missing or was the best chance for bodies to come up  missing, meaning they had some period of time there.

The reason Yurovsky put that in the note about burning 2 of the bodies, most think is to throw any rumors, or innuendo that they LOST 2 bodies.

My last thought on this for the evening is why Alexis & Anastasia.  He was trying to hide the bodies so their location would not be a rallying point for monarchists & monarchism, so why would he burn 2 of the children, why would he not burn Nicholas & Alexandra??

Also we know that in order to destroy the bodies by burning and rid the area of their remains the fire would have to have been temperatures that could only be reached in a crematorium, not in an outside bonfire.

All in all, finding the 2 bodies would be interesting, but at this late date unless they were buried or left in the mine or some other location we know nothing about, their resting place will probably remain a mystery.

[AGRBear]

Over on a thread about Questions about the Testimonies of Yurovsky and Others we've been talking about parts of the testimonies :

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=lastdays;action=display;num=1106530719

On another thread we were talking about Yurovsky's 1920 and 1934 testimony about who he claimed to have burned and that he knew an error had been made.  They had not burned Alexandra but had burned Demidova.   And, yet, knowing a mistake had been made, he, still, didn't tell us the right person.

 
Fate of the Romanovs by King and Wilson.... p. 330,  "According to Kudrin, the bodies,  'which were frozen, smoked and hissed..."
 
If the bodies were still frozen,  still reconizeable, one would think, since Yurovsky knew  each of the eleven dead people,  he'd know who was who...
 
But Yurovsky and the others  didn't know the difference between  Alexandra, her lady-in-waiting and Anastasia/Marie who's body was missing from the grave in Pig's Meadow.
 
I have a simple question:  

Since Yurovsky could tell who was who,  why is he lying?
 
AGRBear
 

AGRBear

[AlexeiLVR]

I just wish we can all solve this mystery!, I really wanna know weather  they were buried separately, or if the bodies fell out of the truck and went missing, or that they've survived and hid their identity all these years!

[AGRBear]

Until then, enjoy this forum and continue to ask questions.

AGRBear

[Mgmstl]

Alexei, Bear is right, continue to ask questions, and use the forum, and READ AS MUCH AS YOU CAN on this subject.  There are so many books available.  Actually "Fate Of The Romanovs" is the best reference out there for the execution and the aftermath.  Very thorough.

[Denise]

Alexei, Bear is right, continue to ask questions, and use the forum, and READ AS MUCH AS YOU CAN on this subject.  There are so many books available.  Actually "Fate Of The Romanovs" is the best reference out there for the execution and the aftermath.  Very thourough.

This is a wonderful book!!  I think you would get a lot out of it, especially as so many of us use it as a source.  It is great to see a post on here with a reference to a page that you can look up and read more about.  It is a fairly intense read, but very in depth and thought provoking.

[Abby]

I agree with Denise and Michael. It is very concise on the last few months of the Imperial Family's life, and also contains the most up-to-date information on the investigation. The muder scene chapter stayed with me for a long time...

[AlexeiLVR]

ok thanx! I'll try to find that book! But i'm only 13, so would it be too hard for me to read? or understand?

[Denise]

I think if you read it slowly you would be fine.  THere are some things that might be hard for you to read emotionally, like the murder scene.  It is very graphic and disturbing.

[Ortino]

My last thought on this for the evening is why Alexis & Anastasia.  He was trying to hide the bodies so their location would not be a rallying point for monarchists & monarchism, so why would he burn 2 of the children, why would he not burn Nicholas & Alexandra??

 I've always wondered this myself and I have come to what I believe is a reasonable conclusion. As the grave is particularly shallow, with eleven people, it might be difficult to fit and completely bury them all. By removing Anastasia and Alexei, the two smallest, there would be room for the other, larger bodies. As they are smaller (especially height wise), it would be easier to dispose of them by some other method. This applies particularly to Anastasia, who was obviously the smallest of the sisters. Since the bodies were most likely just thrown into the grave, they wouldn't have made the most of the space they did have. I believe that this idea is a reasonable one as to why they are not there. I cannot understand why they would bury them somewhere else otherwise, unless they felt that the public would react negatively to the youngest children (they were age wise practically children) being murdered or something......

[Denise]

 As they are smaller (especially height wise), it would be easier to dispose of them by some other method. This applies particularly to Anastasia, who was obviously the smallest of the sisters. Since the bodies were most likely just thrown into the grave, they wouldn't have made the most of the space they did have. I believe that this idea is a reasonable one as to why they are not there.

This raises another question for me.  If they were the smallest (which it seems) might they not have been the two bodies thrown on top?  And, if the road was especially bumpy, couldn't they have been thrown off  somehow?  I have seen photos of the truck on another thread, but am not sure how high the bodies would have piled for anyone to fall out over the side.  

Then, once at the site, if he noticed the bodies were missing--WHAMMO!!  Invent the bonfire story....

[Malenkaya]

Then, once at the site, if he noticed the bodies were missing--WHAMMO!!  Invent the bonfire story....

I can definitely see that happening.  However, when they realized they were missing two bodies, wouldn't someone been sent back to retrace their steps to find them?  How could they not, considering who they were, and knowing some of the girls were still alive when they left the basement?  

In this scenario, it seems possible that if Anastasia and Alexei's bodies fell off the truck, one (or both) of them could have been alive.  Is it possible the steps were retraced, they found Alexei alone (dead) and buried him close to where his body fell off the truck?  At that point they're missing one body, and that leads to the search of the towns that the Bolsheviks went on looking for "a missing Grand Duchess."

Could someone have been out there, came across the bodies, discovered the girl was alive and the boy was dead?  And then taken the girl away, leaving the soldiers to find only Alexei?  If this could have happened, the missing GD probably didn't survive very long, but it may explain losing two bodies and then having them buried separately, and never being found to this day.  Then again, it lends itself nicely to a survival story that explains how the two were separated from the rest of the family, and then from each other.  We all know the various Anastasia and Alexei claiments made no mention of each other when explaining how they survived.  If either of them made it through that first night, they may have never known any other member of their family left the basement alive.

Now I'm starting to reach and get off the topic, so I should quit.

Anastasia

[Denise]

I can definitely see that happening.  However, when they realized they were missing two bodies, wouldn't someone been sent back to retrace their steps to find them?  How could they not, considering who they were, and knowing some of the girls were still alive when they left the basement?

Well, we know that it was a long trek, and the truck got stuck in the mud.  I suppose it is possible that they wouldn't look, due to the inconvenience, but you are right that because of WHO these people are they would have to make some effort to locate the bodies.  

In this scenario, it seems possible that if Anastasia and Alexei's bodies fell off the truck, one (or both) of them could have been alive.  Is it possible the steps were retraced, they found Alexei alone (dead) and buried him alone close to where his body fell off the truck?  At that point they're missing one body, and that leads to the search of the towns that the Bolsheviks went on looking for "a missing Grand Duchess."

I think you have the correct scenario here.  Alexei, to my mind, would have to be dead.  Between how ill he had been, the severity of his injuries, topped with hemophilia, there is no chance of survival.  If they bury him at the spot they find him, and cannot locate Anastasia, those search parties make more sense.  

Could someone have been out there, came across the bodies, discovered the girl was alive and the boy was dead?  And then taken the girl away, leaving the soldiers to find only Alexei?  If this could have happened, the missing GD probably didn't survive very long, but it may explain losing two bodies and then having them buried separately, and never being found to this day.  Then again, it lends itself nicely to a survival story that explains how the two were separated from the rest of the family, and then from each other.    We all know the various Anastasia and Alexei claiments made no mention of each other when explaining how they survived.  If either of them made it through that first night, they may have never known any other member of their family left the basement alive.

I also think this is another likely scenario.  If a sympathetic guard (or a peasant) found the two Imperial children, they may have taken them home to nurse.  The bodies have never beenfound because they died and were buried elsewhere in the Ekaterinburg forest.  

[Annie]

ok thanx! I'll try to find that book! But i'm only 13, so would it be too hard for me to read? or understand?

I was your age when I read Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K. Massie. I hope you will read it first. Please start with N & A and possibly other books then read FOTR later and make up your own mind.