Was Alexei also a Grand Duke?

[Guinastasia]

I've noticed that other heirs to the throne, like Nicholas, and his father before him, and his father's deceased older brother, were also Grand Dukes in addition to being Tsarevich.  Would Alexei also have held this title, or was it only because the others were not the heir when they were born?

[Sarushka]

Yes, I do believe Aleksei was a Grand Duke, though the title of tsesarevich took precedent. I would imagine that in official documents or ceremonies, the full list of his titles would have been used. Royals seem to prefer a whole string of titles, rather than just one big one.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his title would be something like Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei (The Heir Tsesarevich Grand Duke Aleksei).

[David_Pritchard]

Sarushka,

You are correct about Aleksei's full name and title. If one were going to make the effort to refer to him as Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei (The Heir Tsesarevich Grand Duke Aleksei), they would include his patronymic Nikolaievich. If you keep up with my posts, I occasionally refer to him on this forum as Tsarevich and Grand Duke just as a reminder to the readers of this forum that he held both titles.

David

[Geglov2-3]

Выставили в малой анфиладе книгу из комнат Цесаревича Алексея Николаевича.
Have exposed in a small suite the book from rooms of Cesarevitch Alexey Nikolaevicha.

[Forum Admin]

Sarushka,

You are correct about Aleksei's full name and title. If one were going to make the effort to refer to him as Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei (The Heir Tsesarevich Grand Duke Aleksei), they would include his patronymic Nikolaievich. If you keep up with my posts, I occasionally refer to him on this forum as Tsarevich and Grand Duke just as a reminder to the readers of this forum that he held both titles.

David

Spiridovitch reports, in "Les Dernieres Annees..." where Alexei started a physical fight with a playmate at Livadia once.  Alexei and the playmate, the son of one of the senior officers had gone up to a little playground they have fixed up for him, under the attendant's care.  They were happily playing together, when all of a sudden Alexei began beating the other boy because he had left out "Gosudar"  from his title when the boy addressed him! Alexei was demanding his "full" title when the other little boy addressed him while playing.  Gosudar Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei Nicholaievich

[clockworkgirl21]

Spiridovitch reports, in "Les Dernieres Annees..." where Alexei started a physical fight with a playmate at Livadia once.  Alexei and the playmate, the son of one of the senior officers had gone up to a little playground they have fixed up for him, under the attendant's care.  They were happily playing together, when all of a sudden Alexei began beating the other boy because he had left out "Gosudar"  from his title when the boy addressed him! Alexei was demanding his "full" title when the other little boy addressed him while playing.  Gosudar Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei Nicholaievich

  I hope this was when he was younger. He was quite a brat, but grew out of it.

[Peterhof]

Sarushka,

You are correct about Aleksei's full name and title. If one were going to make the effort to refer to him as Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei (The Heir Tsesarevich Grand Duke Aleksei), they would include his patronymic Nikolaievich. If you keep up with my posts, I occasionally refer to him on this forum as Tsarevich and Grand Duke just as a reminder to the readers of this forum that he held both titles.

David

Spiridovitch reports, in "Les Dernieres Annees..." where Alexei started a physical fight with a playmate at Livadia once.  Alexei and the playmate, the son of one of the senior officers had gone up to a little playground they have fixed up for him, under the attendant's care.  They were happily playing together, when all of a sudden Alexei began beating the other boy because he had left out "Gosudar"  from his title when the boy addressed him! Alexei was demanding his "full" title when the other little boy addressed him while playing.  Gosudar Naslednik Tsesarevich Velikii Knyaz Aleksei Nicholaievich

This is so interesting, I knew he slapped some kids when he was a little one but I did not know this fact.  Do you have a date when this happened?

[Belochka]

This is so interesting, I knew he slapped some kids when he was a little one but I did not know this fact.  Do you have a date when this happened?

Oh for goodness sake why is it so interesting. This is hardly earth shattering information that is not unlike horseplay between young lads.

[Forum Admin]

1910 or 1911, I'll have to go back and look. Obviously, he was still a small child of only 5 or 6; such is typical behavior for any child that age.

[Peterhof]

Thank you Forum Admin, I'll take note of that.

Sorry to upset you Belochka, I find a fact really interesting when I learned not only the fact by those small details as to who participated, any witnesses, the place and date and an explanation of what happened.  I'll be less entusiastic next time.

[Belochka]

Thank you Forum Admin, I'll take note of that.

Sorry to upset you Belochka,

Thank you for your understanding.

Margarita

[Sarushka]

This is so interesting, I knew he slapped some kids when he was a little one but I did not know this fact.  Do you have a date when this happened?

Oh for goodness sake why is it so interesting. This is hardly earth shattering information that is not unlike horseplay between young lads.

Precisely. It adds a facet to his character, which in turn furthers his humanity. IMO, it's good for many of the members here to be reminded from time to time that the IF were real, fully rounded people and not just pretty portraits on postcards.


Incidentally, I'm intrigued by your reaction to this anecdote, Belochka. Not very long ago you took the adamant position that a similar report of mischief and roughhousing on Aleksei's part was nothing short of slanderous.

[helenazar]

Incidentally, I'm intrigued by your reaction to this anecdote, Belochka. Not very long ago you took the adamant position that a similar report of mischief and roughhousing on Aleksei's part was nothing short of slanderous.

I think I remember this, but it was something quite different. Alexei was said to punch an adult in the nose and make it bleed, and it was claimed that he did it more than once, implying that it was an almost regular occurance. IMO, that's significantly different than horseplay with another kid....

[Forum Admin]

The Spiridovitch account was clearly with another child, and Derevenko broke it up and reprimanded Alexei.   I recall the incident clearly, they had fixed up a little playground about a half mile from the Palace for him, with toy cannons and a sand area to play in and it happened there.  I myself have never seen a first hand report that Alexei ever struck an adult, ever.

[helenazar]

  I myself have never seen a first hand report that Alexei ever struck an adult, ever.

I believe that the account of Alexei striking an adult and making her nose bleed was from FOTR.