Author Topic: German occupation  (Read 407495 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2006, 09:35:11 AM »

A Soviet commander on the steps of the Catherine Palace in 1944:



View of Akademichesky Prospekt just after the German retreat in 1944 (the wall of Feodorovsky Gorodok is on the left):
You can see what this area looks like today in my video, which hopefully Bob will post soon in the Feodorovsky Gorodok section.

Although this one isn't in Pushkin but in Pavlovsk (a few miles away), I thought it was an interesting photo. Pavlovsk Palace, January 1944:


Offline rgt9w

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2006, 11:04:50 AM »
Thank you Helen for the pictures you continue to post. They are very interesting.

In response to Sarushka's question regarding pictures being found in books, I bought a book in Tsarskoye Selo called "The Amber Room: Three Centuries of History". There is a chapter titled, "The War, Evacuation, Disappearance, and Search" that has many of the photos that are displayed in the Catherine Palace that were shared earlier on this thread by Helen_A (page 2). The book was published by Aurora Art Publishers, St. Petersburg. ISBN573000768-X

Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #107 on: August 27, 2006, 12:45:44 AM »
Few more occupation photos, I had to process them, because of the bad source. If you looking for original, here we go:
http://www.gatchina.ru/razruha/pushkin(korotko).htm




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Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #108 on: August 29, 2006, 03:27:20 AM »
I am really surprise about - no one paid attention to German guy timestamp - 1942, this is summer after German’s occupied Pushkin territory, 2 years before they flied back to Germany. I’ve heard stories, about Palace blowup by Soviets, before they retrieved to Leningrad, than question, what is happened with Amber Room, palace to me, looked completely demolished.
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #109 on: August 29, 2006, 10:42:07 AM »
Doesn't the second photo say that it was taken as memento for a German soldier? Obviously at least this photograph was taken by the Germans, while they occupied the area, not by the Russians. How did the Russians get this photo? And yes, the palace in the background already looks demolished, so clearly it didn't happen right before the Germans retreated in 1944. Unless the date was mislabled? I know that I posted this first photo, of the Grand Hall, earlier on this thread, and that one was labeled 1944, as far as I know...

Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #110 on: August 31, 2006, 12:24:31 AM »
German topo map from 1941
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Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2006, 01:05:28 AM »
Sorry guys, I kept you waiting long enough for next portion of the pictures:
Alexander Palace:



Catherine Palace:

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2006, 08:15:53 AM »
Thanks, vlad. I have to say, the Alexander Palace doesn't look very different today...

Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2006, 11:23:54 AM »
Now, talking about graveyard. Pictures below from spring 1944, right after Germans, I don’t see any graves, and I don’t think, Russians had a chance to do something with it...



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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #114 on: August 31, 2006, 11:28:47 AM »
My guess would be that the Fermans removed the grave markers to prevent them being desecrated...?
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Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #115 on: August 31, 2006, 05:52:38 PM »
more information about legal implications between Germany and Russia, but with some numbers:

"In reality, the Trophy Art Law is quite consistent with the views and feelings of most Russians who never forgot that in the days of what we call Great Patriotic War (1941-1945) German Nazis and their allies destroyed 1,710 Soviet cities and towns, more than 70,000 villages, 32,000 plants and factories, about 100,000 collective and state farms, approximately 65,000 kilometers of railroads (one-and-a-half the length of equator). The country’s national wealth diminished by 30 percent 27*.
        Just like during a previous European invasion to Russia in the 19th Century, when Napoleon’s soldiers were making stables in Russian churches, Hitler’s soldiers looted and destroyed 427 museums, 1,670 Russian Orthodox churches, 237 Catholic churches, 532 synagogues, 43,000 libraries, 6,000 hospitals, 82,000 schools. According to incomplete data, in the 73 richest museums of the USSR 564,723 exhibits were destroyed or looted by Nazis; the 15 richest museums lost 269,515 exhibits 28*.  As Lynn H. Nicholas wrote in her remarkable book: «Everywhere in the USSR special attention was given to the trashing of the houses and museums of great cultural figures: Pushkin’s house was ransacked, as was Tolstoy’s Yasnaya Polyana, where manuscripts were burned in the stoves and German war dead were buried all around Tolstoy’s solitary grave. The museums honoring Chekhov, Rimsky-Korsakov, and Tchaikovsky received similar attentions, the composer of the 1812 Overture being particularly honored by having a motorcycle garage installed in his former dwelling» 29*.
        After liberation of the occupied territory, the Soviet Army, as a rule, could find «nothing of value left in the museums of its recaptured cities. They found instead burned and defaced buildings, ruined laboratories, books reduced to pulp» 30*.  Whereabouts of most art objects that were looted and taken away by Nazi aggressors (like an invaluable historical Smolensk archive or the Amber Room) are still not known. An American prosecutor at the Nuremberg trial called Nazi policy on the occupied Soviet territory a «deliberate destruction of Russian culture».
        Ultimately, 26,5 million of Soviet people (or 11,5 percent of the USSR population in 1941), most of them civilians, were killed by Nazis, exterminated in German concentration camps, or died as a result of wounds. A combined number of Soviet citizens who were killed or crippled during the Great Patriotic War was equal to over forty million 31*.
        As a form of reparations for the damage which had been done by Nazi Germany to the Soviet Union, if one can speak about any possible reparation that could compensate loss of millions of lives, the USSR, among other things, evacuated from Germany approximately 2,2 million artworks, and about 3 million archival files.
        Between 1955 and 1969, as a manifestation of its goodwill, the Soviet Union handed back to the German Democratic Republic the lion’s share of art objects, which had been taken away after the Second World War: more than 1,922,000 pieces of art (or 87,4 percent of what had been originally evacuated) and almost all three million archival files. Among the art treasures returned were Dresden Art Gallery with its Raphael’s Sistine Madonna, a collection of art works from the Berlin National Gallery, the famous Pergam Altar, masterpieces by Titian and Botticelli, a collection of antique sculpture from the Albertinium Museum, etc. Naturally, after 1990, all those artifacts belong to the unified Germany.
        In 1994, Doris Hertramf, counsellor for cultural affairs of the German Embassy in Russia, estimated that between 30,000 and 100,000 artifacts were still in Russian museums 32*. By 1997, the German side had risen the question of a return of some 200,000 to 300,000 pieces of art from German state-run and private-owned collections. Most of them are the monuments of numismatics (175,000 coins and medals) and archaeology, as well as about 55,000 paintings including works of French Impressionists and Postimpressionists (Monet, Matisse, Van Gogh), masterpieces of Goya, Rembrandt, Rubens and Delacroix, a 15th Century Gutenberg Bible and the 5,000-year-old Trojan gold collection discovered by German archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann 33*. "
Original article from here:
http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/domrin/seppower.html
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Offline Tania+

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #116 on: August 31, 2006, 10:48:13 PM »
Dear Vladm,

Thank you very much for the extensive information you have shared with us about the legal implications between Germany and Russia. The extensive listing of numbers you have offered, rock the human soul in response to the outrageous and extensive loss of lives, and that of so many other robberies done to the civilian population during the war.

I know that Napoleon had looted and offered extensive damage to Russia, but none so horrific as the Nazis. But, 26.5 million human hearts are an astounding number of civilians to be murdered or as you have stated, 11.5 percent of the USSR population in 1941. I don't think there ever has been that high of an amount of human loss as it was in Russia, no matter what people may try to state, in the German concentration camps. Horrific !!!. The loss of lives in cities across Russia were also heartless.

But, imho, i don't think reparations offered to the Russian people could ever compensate as you say for the millions of lives killed and crippled, plus the loss of artworks, and archival files, etc. Nothing can compare with this loss, and nothing I don't think can match the purposely crafted plan that the Nazis planned in the mass murders in Russia and the mass looting throughout Russia. It was extreme in cruelty, beyond comprehension !

Tatiana+

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Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2006, 02:46:08 AM »
Thank you Tania,
But what I described earlier, it was situation through entire Russia. I would like to present how it was for Leningrad defenders:
1st image represent German - USSR front for 1941, Leningrad completely cutoff from the rest of the Country.

1st year of the blockade become extremely difficult for the defenders, daily bread portion reduced from 800 gram (2 lb) down to 250 gram (0.5 lb) entire nutrition's per day for growing person.

Death rate become catastrophic, entire city reduced to 1944 down to 1/6th of its original size - 560 000 people.

When Ladoga lake got frozen, they open for the winter ice road, conditions for the drivers unbearable, during the winter, they couldn’t close door of the truck, because truck could go under any moment. Most of them, was driving nonstop for day's, in order keep themselves awake, they were installing swinging kettle - kicking driver in the head.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 02:48:03 AM by vladm »
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Offline Tania+

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #118 on: September 02, 2006, 02:06:04 PM »
My dear friend,

Please continue to share information about the German occupation throughout the entirety of Russia. The more our schoolchildren read and understand, the more they will understand the courage and selflessness of the average Russian citizen and her children.
Russian citizens and children were truly heroic, especially in Leningrad.

The more that is offered on these threads as to how the Russian people survived and fought back, the more readily we may understand the real character of how her citizens survived the Russian Revolution. Both the revolution and the fight against Nazism took a terrible toll on the people overall. I don't think there was anything to duplicate the horrendous odds that the people had to address. The infinite self determination to not only survive, but to make sure the society as a whole survived is incrudulous initself.
Thank you for continuing to educate the mainstay of the forum members. God Bless !

Tatiana+
TatianaA


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2006, 02:45:42 PM »
Some pictures of the Leningrad Memorial


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