Author Topic: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)  (Read 573789 times)

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1260 on: September 08, 2011, 08:59:40 AM »
I made the point that Wallis was sensible being in the relationship with POW because being the king's favorite does has its perks and advantages, she would be a fool not to accept. In terms of dollars and cents, Wallis did receive a large amount of jewelry from David, and those are part of "her spoils". In later years when a lady broke her engagement and decided to sent the large diamond solitaire ring back, Wallis stopped her "Don't ! It is cash !" Wallis had wanted to be the king's favorite, there is no doubt, but whether she wanted to be his wife or caused the abdication, I don't think so. As for as the abdication is concerned, the men made the choices, and she was a bystander. When members of the government asked her to stop the abdication, she agreed at once and wrote David a note and contact her lawyer to stop the divorce. I don't think anybody could have done anything more than that. Wallis had done more than Lola Montez or Magda Lupescu to tried to avert David from jumping ship. On the point about what would happened had David stopped at the last minute on the abdication. Wallis herself had thought about returning to China or maybe to reconcile with Ernst. I think either men would have made a financial provision for her, so I don't see that as a loss. 

Offline mcdnab

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1261 on: September 08, 2011, 09:15:33 AM »
Final point on all this:

Women throughout history are always blamed whether they were responsible or not - in this arguement it is always Elizabeth "the vindictive" or the "saintly wartime queen" against Wallis "the king stealling tart" or "half of the greatest love story of all time".
I think it is time the men took their fair share of responsiblity.
Quite frankly I don't think Elizabeth was particularly vindictive nor do i think she was a saint, I don't think Wallis was either.
If anyone got a raw deal then it was Wallis but ironically like her sister in law she'd made her bed and decided to lie on it.
The shallow and rather pathetic life the Windsors lead (granted in considerable style) was by enlarge dictated by Edward and like most of George V's children he was badly educated, pretty uncultured and rather self indulgent.
Ironically all George V's children found spouses who 'improved' them (perhaps with the exception of Edward VIII and the Princess Royal)

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1262 on: September 08, 2011, 09:27:20 AM »
I think all George V's son needed strong women to back them up. David found a very strong one and decided to have her no matter what. I don't think Wallis stole him away and yes Elizabeth (Queen Mum) was vindictively towards "her". She did not like Wallis and never cared for her anyway. No I don't think the wives improved them, but they needed them there to support them (George Kent was very well formed and did not need Marina to improve him).

Alixz

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1263 on: September 08, 2011, 09:42:32 AM »
According to Greg King's sources, George Kent was not very well formed and was undecided about his sexuality and its roll in his life.

Marina had to deal with George's problems.  Greg mentions that David had to go to Paris to help extricate George from "problems" caused by his sexual choices.  I get the feeling that, like most Victorian and post Victorian royals, George and Marina were married to "give George the stable influence of a wife".

I did mention before that I find it interesting that the Greek Royal family would have sanctioned the marriage between George Kent and Princess Marina.

Alixz

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1264 on: September 08, 2011, 09:47:36 AM »
However, we could go on forever with our own opinions of Wallis and David and their extended families.

No matter what I read about Wallis, I still find her hard to take and I am unable to sympathize with her choices.  Even after her separation from Win Spencer but before her divorce, Wallis was already getting involved with an Argentinian diplomat.  She never stopped looking for the next step in security and comfort.

From Win Spencer to Felipe Espil without benefit of divorce to Ernest Simpson to David Wales, again without benefit of divorce.  When one looks at her record, she does indeed come across as an adventuress and a social climber.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1265 on: September 08, 2011, 09:57:02 AM »
Yes. I agree that after her divorce, Wallis had to make her own luck. She seem to have a great success in getting allies, but do remember she was on her own now without her rich uncle or husband to support her. Wallis's only ally at that point was her Aunt Bessie, who never gave up on her namesake (Wallis was named "Bessie Wallis"). I am more sympathetic with how much she had to deal with (after her first divorce and before Ernst). She was a complicated woman and a very interesting one.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1266 on: September 08, 2011, 03:36:27 PM »
Hi,

Yes Eric, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head when you say, "She was a very complicated woman and an interesting one"..
She has remained fascinating to us over the decades and that is why we're still writing about her and filming her story again!

However, I have always championed The Queen Mother - no matter how 'nasty' she might have been on occasion!!!  That's just me...

Something that has always intrigued me:
Look at pictures of The Queen Mother and of the Duchess of Windsor.
I always usually first notice TQM as a smiling face and a twinking eye and maybe a cheery wave.  Then, the clothes and jewels next...
With the DW, it's always the jewels & clothes first, then the hair and then the usually unsmiling face...

I always wonder - Who was happy and who was just existing??

Larry

Offline LadyTudorRose

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1267 on: September 08, 2011, 04:38:46 PM »
Really in most photos Wallis was smiling and looking vey relaxed. But the media tended to jump on the pictures where she had an angry look on her face because it better fit the story they wanted to tell. They do it with everyone. Of course, the pro-Wallis articles did the opposite, but you don't see those photos as much because that view has fallen out of favor. I'm sure if you dig you'll find pictures of Elizabeth looking angry and bitter as well. They also made a point to find unflattering pictures; one of the few widely published photos of Wallis where she does look genuinely relaxed and happy is that awful wedding photo where she's laughing and her face is all scrunched up and her nose looks like a blob. That's one of the worst photos taken of her, but it's one of the ones you find first when you look her up. Well, that and the one from when she met Hitler.

Neither Wallis or Elizabeth got exactly what they wanted, but in the long run they were both probably better off for it.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1268 on: September 08, 2011, 10:02:19 PM »
I think to be fair, both women are strong women, so they were both fighters. It was only that when they have nothing to fight for that the Queen Mum softened towards her.

I agree with you Jeniann, The Queen Mother lost her husband earlier than Wallis, so the Windsor had a few more "happy years" together. So on both sides there are casualties. In exiling the Windsors, the Queen Mum was blamed for being the "nasty one" (she knew she would be blamed) , but couldn't help it. Gradually the newspapers and the public began to notice the slights and the RF had to make amends to rein in the Windsors. It was due to public opinion that the Windsors was invited to the Queen Mary plaque unveiling.

As for who is better looking, it is really taste. Wallis was forever chic in the French sense while the Queen Mum was more matronly and lovely.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1269 on: September 09, 2011, 04:44:04 AM »
Given that Wallis Simpson was significant only because Edward VIII insisted on marrying her, it is hardly surprising that the wedding picture (unflattering or not) appears in print so frequently.

To me, she looks haughty in most of her pictures, and I instantly think of the tale that she had so many facelifts that she couldn't open or close her mouth properly.

Ann

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1270 on: September 09, 2011, 08:13:55 AM »
I think Wallis looked divine in the photos Cecil Beaton took of her. A woman of incredible person style and chic. She was an original. The Queen Mother was more fou-fou in her Winterhalter inspired pics.

Offline LadyTudorRose

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1271 on: September 09, 2011, 08:25:43 AM »
Given that Wallis Simpson was significant only because Edward VIII insisted on marrying her, it is hardly surprising that the wedding picture (unflattering or not) appears in print so frequently.

To me, she looks haughty in most of her pictures, and I instantly think of the tale that she had so many facelifts that she couldn't open or close her mouth properly.

Ann
But there were dozens of wedding photos; in some of them Wallis looks much better. There's one picture in particular that was taking by some newpaper photographer where Wallis looks really awful and that's the one you see everywhere.



I think there were a couple others taken from a similar angle that also show up a lot.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1272 on: September 09, 2011, 09:00:16 AM »
That's the only one I've ever seen, so I thought it was the only one taken.

To my eye she simply looks as though she's got the sun in her eyes, though she is wearing far too much lipstick. Otherwise, she looks all right - her outfit is quite sensible.

Ann

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1273 on: September 09, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »
A very modern and sensible wedding dress in a color that matches her eyes.

Alixz

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #1274 on: September 09, 2011, 10:00:11 AM »
Too much lipstick was quite en vogue in the 1930s.  I have pictures of my mother wearing too much lipstick in the 1904s and it was always red.  That would make it show up very dark in black and white pictures.

If it is true that Wallis had facial surgery, they why wouldn't she have had that wart removed?  Everyone commented on it.  Those who liked her and those who didn't.

As for her wedding photo and the dress.  I love the styles of the 1930s and 1940s so I would like that dress, however as it was her third marriage, Wallis made the right choice to "tone it down" and not try to come across as the "blushing" bride.

But, no takers on my comment about how she moved from one man to another even before she had discarded or divorced the one before?  And I don't give a "crap" that she was alone and in need of support.  Her mother worked, but Wallis never had to and never tried.  She simply looked for another man to provide for her.  Wallis never seemed to think that she should be in charge of her self or her own welfare.  It was as if she expected everything to be handed to her.  And that had nothing to do with the times in which she lived.  Women who needed to work found a way by cooking or cleaning or sewing or "heaven forbid" running a boarding house.  My own great grandmother ran a boarding house after my great grandfather died in 1905.  She worked hard to provide a good stable home for my grandmother.  Just as Alice Montague Warfield did for Wallis.

And, as I have mentioned before, my grandmother was born in 1896 just as Wallis was.  So the times were the same for both Alice and my great grandmother and their fatherless daughters.