Author Topic: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)  (Read 662131 times)

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #885 on: February 14, 2010, 10:24:24 AM »
'The Windsors were exiled immediately after their wedding. When he wanted to come back, The King and the prime minister did not permit them to come back (even for the war effort). That is history not fantasy. The tax thing did not come up as an issue until later.'

That the Windsors were required to stay out of the country is really not surprising (in fact, Edward left immediately after abdicating). A living ex-king is always going to be an embarrassment and potential threat to his successor (except in places like Holland, where monarchs routinely  abdicate in order to retire). Edward had been a popular figure before abdicating, and George VI was in a very awkward position, needing to establish himself and his style of kingship. There is also the recent Romanian precedent whereby Carol II renounced his rights, Michael became king, then Carol returned and took over! The only other two contemporary ex-kings I can think of are Ferdinand of Bulgaria and Constantine I of Greece, both of whom abdicated  in favour of their sons and went into exile (constantine did so twice). Constantine died within months of his second exile, but Ferdinand lived a comfortable life in Coburg for 30 years (did he ever visit Bulgaria during Boris's reign?)

Perhaps if the Duke and Duchess had been prepared to stay out of the limelight, they might have been allowed back eventually, but it seems they were not. And they didn't exactly inspire confidence in their discretion and good judgement either in the late 1930s or during the war.

I am reminded of the current Duchess of York expecting the royal family to welcome her into their midst after all the embarrssment she has caused (reports in the British press this weekend that she is seriously in debt once again).

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #886 on: February 14, 2010, 11:45:13 AM »
Hi,

I don't know if this is "Off Topic" or not but:
Did David and Wallis ever entertain or 'hobnob' with cousin Carol and Magda?
Now, there's a fearsome foursome!!!
Would they like each other or compete?
How would the two adventuresses appear to 'upstage' each other?

Oh I can see a movie script about this!!

But seriously, did they ever know each other?
Weren't they all together or in close proximity in Portugal at one time?

Larry

Robert_Hall

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #887 on: February 14, 2010, 02:12:41 PM »
It is a just a guess on my part, but I would not be at all surprised if they did   know each other socially, at least. Portugal was the home of several  ex patria royals and most of them were "party people".
  Plus, I know I am being pedantic, but "exile" is not  proper at all. That  means a permanent ban from the country. That was  definitely not the case with the Duke of Windsor.  It was indeed best for all concerned the he leave the country Considering his actions after leaving,  it makes perfect sense. As I said before,  one cannot "exile" a British citizen, or  "subject" as the term was then. And, after all, he  was a subject after his abdication...to his brother, GVI.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 02:14:55 PM by Robert_Hall »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #888 on: February 14, 2010, 02:32:35 PM »
If you don't like exile, maybe expelled or banned would be a better word. Yes, he was asked to leave so that he would not overshadow his brother. Even in the midst of war, the Windsors were not permitted to come back. After many options, they were shipped off to the Bahamas to be "out of harms way". So one cannot say that he was allowed to come back to Britian when he was NOT permitted to come. That is a historical fact.

Yes. Even I was surprised to read that The Queen Mum did went out of her way to be nice to Wallis after Edward's death. It seems she had softened towards her old rival and wanted to chose the chapter on the abdication. It was Wallis who lost the heart for it especially her health has deterioated. She only managed to meet Princess Margaret & The Kents for short period of times.

Robert_Hall

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #889 on: February 14, 2010, 02:45:41 PM »
 As  he, the Duke, traveled on a diplomatic passport, he was definitely not exiled. Very  few, if any abdicated sovereigns  remain in their  [former] realm,  most leaving with   generous compensation, earned otherwise.
 BTW, Charles visited them did he not?   He was also in regular contact with his mother & brother, by telephone I  suppose,  probably calling them reverse charges!

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #890 on: February 14, 2010, 02:52:04 PM »
Yes. But BANNED from living in Britian again. That is quite a punishment not to be allowed to live in your homeland again. King Leopold III of Belgium and Queen Wilhelmina of Holland both abdicated but both were allowed to live in their homeland. What do you say about that ? Charles never seen his uncle until years later.The Duke kept up comminication with his mother through letters and sporatic meetings. Another family member who remain close was the Princess Royal (Mary).

Robert_Hall

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #891 on: February 14, 2010, 04:08:19 PM »
Queen Willamina  retired with full honours, as did Juliana. Leopold III abdicated at the will of the people. [a plebiscite as I recall] Edward  was a totally different case. Closer to Carol II of Romania, pressure over his personal and political issues.
 And he was not exactly  "banned" from returning to the UK, He was quite comfy in France. They [the Windsors] would never have had the social life they had  there.
 Wallis thought the country dull and uninspiring- which I obviously disagree with, as often as I go back,  and Edaward/David  felt shunned by society.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 04:10:09 PM by Robert_Hall »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #892 on: February 14, 2010, 04:36:09 PM »
He was banned from the country. At least he was not allowed to live there. This has been the case for many years. Edward was not comfy in the begining and had to wrung a financial consideration from his brother, King George VI. It was almost like we pay you not to come back. No wonder he felt cold shouldered by the ruling class. All those who was close to him were given the cold shoulder including Emerald Cunnard. Wallis would have returned to England at the drop of a hat had her husband was allowed back.

Robert_Hall

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #893 on: February 14, 2010, 04:51:25 PM »
He was not banned, Eric, he was asked to stay away for a while,  to avoid contention. This was quite understandable. The war, of course intervened and they had [the Windsors]   loved their life in France. Who would not?  Posh houses,  nice income, most of it comp't,  and I take it English is not your first language because he did "wrung" anything, he sold Sandringham and Balmoral   to   his brother.  Why they wanted those piles is beyond me, but, so be it.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #894 on: February 14, 2010, 05:43:29 PM »
A while seems like a month or a year. You are talkining about years. They were "persona non gratas" in the Royal Family. To be cut off from one's roots was a very big price to pay for one's happiness. The House in Paris was filled with momentoes from his life before the abdication. The Duchess was a gypsy (Baltimore, Beijing, London), so that did not bother her too much. Edward was raised on tradition, so the exile or forced living aboard hit him very hard. He loved his life togather with Wallis, but he also missed England. I don't think you understand tradition, pomp and circumstances (which is the trappings of royalty), so what Edward lost you cannot comprehend. I lived in a British Colony and went to a British school so I understand it much better than you. I take it that you are American. Money is not everything.

Margot

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #895 on: February 14, 2010, 06:16:50 PM »
I am lost for words! If 'tradition' was so important to Edward VIII I dare say he may have thought twice about abdicating wouldn't he?

Eric your arrogance leaves me cringing! How dare you use this forum to claim a better understanding of tradition, pomp and circumstances than another poster! I can not believe your audacity!

I hardly think living in a British Colony like Hong Kong or attending a British School gives you the right to claim to be able to comprehend what 'Edward lost.' Really Eric! I do wish you would stop writing such shallow nonsense! If you're not adding pointless inane polluting one liner such as 'Breathtaking,'... 'Indeed. I agree' and 'Very Elegant. Thank you'  type posts you come out with the above sort of post which is utterly contemptible, disgracefully rude and revoltingly conceited! If you have nothing of any serious or constructive kind to add to the threads why don't you just be quiet instead of posting ceaseless rubbish! By the way, you do realize that no matter how many posts you manage to send you will never graduate any further than Velikye Knyaz?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 06:26:05 PM by Margot »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #896 on: February 14, 2010, 06:40:11 PM »
Quite a lot of words from a newbie.

I don't think I am arrogant at all. I think it is so easy to think that money solves everything. People do not understand what he had lost when he abdicated. If this thread's sole purpose is to trash the Duke & the Duchess I will stay silent as I do not share this view at all. They were not perfect, flawed in their own way. However they were victims of circumstances as well. I read enough biographies about them to know there is two sides to every story. Many authors I read agreed that the HRH thing is quite petty and not culculated to improve relations between the Windsors and the Royal Family. The invitation to the Queen Mary memorial plack was the ice breaker. There after there were overtures from both sides to bury the hatchet. However it was the Queen Mother who made the best effort emotionally to be helpful to Wallis. She was attentive to her during the furneral and even prepared to visit her in Paris. It was cancelled at the last moment by the Duchess. She continue to reach out and the final note was through flowers "In Friendship, Elizabeth". What better way to end a feud than that. The Queen Mum even attended the furneral ceremony in person (Interestingly Princess Diana also did).

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #897 on: February 14, 2010, 07:18:54 PM »
I can't say I really blame the British royals for not wanting the Windsors in England, at least in the beginning for a variety of reasons. The family was personally appalled by the act, the public was reeling as the press had remained silent up until almost the last minute, it was felt that the new king needed space to establish his identity , that it would be very awkward to have 2 living Kings in the country at the same time and what on Earth would the former King's role eventually be. It was unprecedented in modern British history, or modern royal history. It would up going well in the Neterlands but that was later and under very different circumstances. I think there were great and legitimate fears about the stability of the monarchy, no matter how popular it had been. It modern times, it has basically existed upon the good will of the populace and popularity can be a fickle thing. Edward's parents were aware of this and did their utmost to keep the popularity going, they never coasted or assumed that it was something that was to be taken for granted. Even today, witness the effects of Charles's relationship with Camilla and the immense harm caused, despite the Queen's popularity and dutifulness over decades of service. With thrones still relatively precarious in 1936 (the Spanish monarchy having been tossed over just a few years prior) I can only imagine what was going through everyone's mind. PM Baldwin's informed the King that  "... the Queen becomes the Queen of the country. Therefore in the choice of a Queen the voice of the people must be heard."

Edward had also undercut himself from some of the pillars of potential support. While George and Mary had made inroads towards making the monarchy more accessible, being very visible and amongst the people, dealing well with the Labour governments and so on, there was no doubt they were traditionalists to the core, just ones who recognized the need to change in order to survive. It was viewed that Edward would prefer sweeping change and demonstrated a disdain and contempt for traditional notions--though he might not have been as radical as feared since he publicly referred to left-wing politicians as 'cranks'. Some ministers felt he would try to meddle in politics and Ramsey MacDonald wrote that "These escapades should be limited. They are an invasion into the field of politics & should be watched constitutionally." He also made speeches that ran counter to governmental positions and butted heads with his ministers over the Italy/Ethiopia situation, even refusing to receive deposed Emperor Selassie. Many influential members of society, the Church and the political class also felt his set an extremely bad moral standard for the public. The role as Defender of the Faith and marrying a twice divorced woman undermined him with the Church--this  issue was still potent in the case of Charles 60 years later. Wallis's first divorce wasn't recognized by the Church of England and while, if challenged, this might have annulled her marriage to Ernest Simpson, the same problem would've existed with the King. He showed tone-deafness with his subjects in Scotland following his refusal to open a new wing of Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, claiming he could not do so because he was in mourning for his father. On the day after the opening he was pictured in the newspapers cavorting on holiday with Wallis. All this in addition to what the government feared about Wallis--both true and untrue--especially regarding any German sympathies. Many reports were given credence at the time, however, so the thought that this woman (whatever the rest of her faults) could become consort would have been frightening to many in power and extremely damaging.

On 13 November 1936, the King's private secretary, Alec Hardinge, wrote to the King warning him that: "The silence in the British Press on the subject of Your Majesty's friendship with Mrs Simpson is not going to be maintained ... Judging by the letters from British subjects living in foreign countries where the Press has been outspoken, the effect will be calamitous." Media silence was maintained until a Bishop seemed to make reference to it on 1 Dec, stating that the King needed to be more aware of his need for divine grace. After that, bets were off and Wallis fled the country by the 3rd. I once bought an old scrapbook on ebay that was pretty much devoted to the situation and the difference in coverage was remarkable. The American press wasn't shy at all about comments or photographs. It's remarkable to think how much silence could be maintained in Britain when one is living in today's 24 hrs, instant news coverage. Those photos would have hit TMZ and video would have been splashed all over YouTube within hours nowadays.
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Margot

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #898 on: February 14, 2010, 07:29:11 PM »
Quite a lot of words from a newbie.



How dare you use such a patronizing tone Eric! You will find such a remark may well offend many members of the forum, especially Newbies!

I hope (in vain no doubt) you get banned for being so rude and insinuating your obvious contempt for posters of Newbie status so blatantly!

On the issue of Wallis. Does anyone know what piece Princess Michael inherited/received? I would love to know more about these pieces if any one would be kind enough to help!

By the way Thanks so much for your really interesting post Ella....very much appreciated!

 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 07:54:58 PM by Margot »

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #899 on: February 14, 2010, 08:38:42 PM »
Glad you liked it Margot. : )

On the subject of pieces Princess Michael inherited, I don't know if any of that info is listed on the Windsor jewel threads or a search of the Duke & Duchess of Windsor threads? I know that the Duchess's jewelry has been discussed quite a bit in the past and the issue of the Kents has come up in them.
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