King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)

[Eddie_uk]

Thank you Grace. I wish people would get there facts straight. Queen Mary was never unmaternal. Lady Airlie wrote that QM and GV were not stern and unloving & she remembered them as more conscientious and devoted to their children then the majority of parents in that era, but felt neither had any understanding of a childs mind.

Queen Marys behviour during the abdication crisis and after was exemplary. The Duke was just an incredibly selfish man that wanted his way no matter what. I feel sorry for Bertie who had to put up with him for all those years. It's well known he lied to Bertie to get what he wanted. In fact Sarah Bradford wrote that the Duke never gave any impression that he felt any grief at Bertie's death and only seems to have gone to his funeral for no other reason but to be seen publicly & to obtain a continuance of his allowance under the new regime.

My least favourite royal by far!

[ashdean]

Thank you Grace. I wish people would get there facts straight. Queen Mary was never unmaternal. Lady Airlie wrote that QM and GV were not stern and unloving & she remembered them as more conscientious and devoted to their children then the majority of parents in that era, but felt neither had any understanding of a childs mind.

Queen Marys behviour during the abdication crisis and after was exemplary. The Duke was just an incredibly selfish man that wanted his way no matter what. I feel sorry for Bertie who had to put up with him for all those years. It's well known he lied to Bertie to get what he wanted. In fact Sarah Bradford wrote that the Duke never gave any impression that he felt any grief at Bertie's death and only seems to have gone to his funeral for no other reason but to be seen publicly & to obtain a continuance of his allowance under the new regime.

My least favourite royal by far!

AS always Eddie you say Exactly what I myself think..but put it far more Eloquently...Q Mary was not the bad mother her son made out...Edward was a very selfish,spoiled deceitful man

[Eric_Lowe]

Queen Mary was not a bad mother, but she was not a warm and loving mother too. Even Vicky commented on her coldness to her babies. Also she suffered in comparison with her mother-in-law who was a lovey dovey kind of mother.

[HerrKaiser]

I don't think it is a question of 'getting facts straight'; rather how one interprets a lot of varying data that relies on subjective analysis. There are many QM fans, I am not one of them, per se. Edward was not a perfect fellow, but he was POW and that position has an inherited power that gives the title holder a broader reach to affect his future.

going back to the comment that he was said to have made, again, a loving mother in a good relationship with her eldest son would not have caused such a comment to be made.

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed.It seems that most of her sons have to find strong women as spouces maybe an indication of her inability to relate to her children.

[Eddie_uk]

Thank you Grace. I wish people would get there facts straight. Queen Mary was never unmaternal. Lady Airlie wrote that QM and GV were not stern and unloving & she remembered them as more conscientious and devoted to their children then the majority of parents in that era, but felt neither had any understanding of a childs mind.

Queen Marys behviour during the abdication crisis and after was exemplary. The Duke was just an incredibly selfish man that wanted his way no matter what. I feel sorry for Bertie who had to put up with him for all those years. It's well known he lied to Bertie to get what he wanted. In fact Sarah Bradford wrote that the Duke never gave any impression that he felt any grief at Bertie's death and only seems to have gone to his funeral for no other reason but to be seen publicly & to obtain a continuance of his allowance under the new regime.

My least favourite royal by far!

AS always Eddie you say Exactly what I myself think..but put it far more Eloquently...Q Mary was not the bad mother her son made out...Edward was a very selfish,spoiled deceitful man

So sweet, thank you ashdean!! I wish my writing was eloquent!!

[mcdnab]

George VI and Edward VIII only ever really trusted their wives and as Eric says did indeed choose women who were quite maternal and were strong individuals in their own right, perhaps looking for the strong female support they perhaps felt was lacking in their own mother. In George VI case it was exemplified very much in the happy, contented family unit that resembled his wife's childhood rather than his own.
As has been said Lady Airlie (who was very close to the royal family) didn't think of them as particularly cruel or neglectful just lacking in any real understanding of children. York Cottage was dominated by George V his prejudices and his opinons and an obsession with behaving in the "right" or "correct" way and it certainly had an appalling effect on the behaviour and characters of all his children. The Queen with her strong sense of duty and devotion to the British crown appears to have always given way to her husband whether she considered him right or wrong. The idea that she was cold and unmaternal is that she clearly had a disaste for the whole business of pregnancy and childbirth unlike say the Empress Frederick and Queen Alexandra.
The thing about this that is perhaps most odd is that both George V and Queen Mary were themselves the products of homes dominated by very loving and affectionate mothers so its rather bizarre that they turned out to be poor parents to their own.

[Eddie_uk]

Queen Mary was not a bad mother, but she was not a warm and loving mother too. Even Vicky commented on her coldness to her babies. Also she suffered in comparison with her mother-in-law who was a lovey dovey kind of mother.

For once we agree! However I believe Vicky mistook coldness for shyness. Lady Airlie knew Queen Mary better than most and I feel her thoughts carry a lot of weight. Queen Mary seems to have enjoyed a good relationship with Bertie and George particularly, and appears to have been close as they grew older. Queen Mary's diary entrys following the lose of 3 sons is also very revealing.

Sorry I don't mean to turn this into a Queen Mary thread, I just have tremendous respect for her, her life and what she did for the monarchy!

[royal_netherlands]

[Eric_Lowe]

Well...I had tremendous respect for Queen Mary for her duty and dedication to her country, people and also a good wife. However that did not make her a loviong mother, she seems to be cold and only able to express her love through art and lovely objects. That is why Georgie Kent was the closest to her. In the documentary, Author Sophie Weston says "He was close to Queen Mary because he was the easiest for her to love. He shared her love for antigues, art and music."David did had a strong case against Queen Mary as she was too duty driven to be a"real mother" to her children. However in her later years, Queen Mary softened and even added a message and a string of pearls to Wallis. I think that was the best she could do.

[LillyO]

It is true that a mother can feel and act very differently towards each of her children. For any person to make a comment such as icy veined bitch - regarding his mother, the person was more than likely than not subjected to some behaviours by the mother to lead him to his conclusions. I believe Mary was a cold mother to Edward VIII.

OK - What I really want to know is this - What do you think of the way the royal family treated Wallis - mainly in how they seemed to go out of their way to hurt her?  The beloved Queen Mum/Elizabeth especially was just relentless in her cruelty towards Wallis. I think any flowers she may have sent Wallis later in life, were to ease her own guilty conscience in remembering her petty and vindictive and unnecessary cruelness toward Wallis. Age does have a way of doing that to people.

Also, I read that the royal family treated Wallis like crap when she went back to England to bury the Duke of Windsor. Wallis apparently remarked at the gravesite that there was barely enough room for her (she was also to be buried there). I also read that when Wallis was buried, the service was very hurried and her name was never mentioned.

Wallis was said to have taken a liking to Prince Charles - so after the Duke of Windsor died, the family sent Charles to visit Wallis at her home in Paris. It is my understanding that his "mission" was to recover anything he could that might belong to the royal family- sort of like picking the bones of the dead. Is this true?
Charles was supposed to have once said that the Duchess of Windsor was "a horrible woman"  - and when asked how did he know? -  he commented that "because my Grandmother told me!"  Didn't Charles Grandmother also say that Camilla was a horrible woman?

[Eddie_uk]

I believe Mary was a cold mother to Edward VIII.

Lilly, I think we will believe Lady Airlie over you dear.

As for your other opinions, I think they our joke; i.e. Charles being sent on a mission to see what he could scavenge (!!) the QM attempting to ease a conscience (When it's a fact that by Edward abdicating it sent GVI to an early grave), Wallis receiving crap treatment (Despite staying at BP)

And as far Wallis's name never being mentioned at her own funeral, that's hilarious.

Please read a good book on the subject.

[LillyO]

Oh My!  I did not expect that! What a slap across the face!!

If you bothered to REAd what I posted, you would have realized that I was asking a question, NOT asking anyone to believe anything. I asked for information, not a brow beating!

[Romanov_fan]

We really enjoy new posters here, and I enjoyed reading your posts, LillyO. Please continue posting.

[LadyTudorRose]

I believe Mary was a cold mother to Edward VIII.

Lilly, I think we will believe Lady Airlie over you dear.

As for your other opinions, I think they our joke; i.e. Charles being sent on a mission to see what he could scavenge (!!) the QM attempting to ease a conscience (When it's a fact that by Edward abdicating it sent GVI to an early grave), Wallis receiving crap treatment (Despite staying at BP)

And as far Wallis's name never being mentioned at her own funeral, that's hilarious.

Please read a good book on the subject.

Actually, it wasn't Charles that was sent to scavenge stuff, it was Louis Mountbatten, but the sentiment was certainly the same. Also, George VI was killed because he smoked like a chimney. He smoked long before he became king and I doubt he would've quit had his brother stayed on. Whether the stress of being king helped it a matter of opinion, but if he hadn't been king there still would've been a war and most likely bombings going on and he might've still been under stress.

The Queen Mother certainly didn't get along with Wallis. It certainly wasn't all dislike on her part; the feeling was mutual. I think the Queen Mother acted nicer to Wallis in the end not because of a guilty conscious but because after her husband died she had more sympathy for Wallis because she was also a widow and I think when she saw how much a mess Wallis was at the funeral (she had to be sedated) she might've realized that perhaps Wallis was a more complex woman who had loved Edward rather than just being the harsh social climbing gold digger type the royal family had always seen her as.

And I know I've read in at least one book that Wallis's name wasn't mentioned at her funeral. Let me look that up.

Oh yes, from Elizabeth by Sarah Bradford, p. 417, first American edition, midway through the second paragraph:

even more curiously her (Wallis) name was not mentioned even once during the ceremony.

I don't know how good of a source you see Sarah Bradford as, but I've always considered her a decent historian and I know this isn't the only book I've seen that in.