Author Topic: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)  (Read 570397 times)

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Robert_Hall

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #720 on: January 25, 2009, 01:35:19 PM »
Oh, I would never put Wallis in the same category as that Lupecu woman.  Both may have been greedy tramps but Wallis had more class, being from  Balitmore...
 And, I agree, Wallis never wanted to be queen. She would have happily remained "royal mistress". At least, that is my understanding.

Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #721 on: January 25, 2009, 03:56:17 PM »
I love the book Greg King did on the Duchess, it was reasonable and fair (unlike others who claim she was a German spy, a woman who learn sexual tricks in China or even worst a man !). However some of the stuff on the Romanovs sounds balmy...including a claim Serge might have sexual molested his nephew Dimitri...

I have a friend who has studied Dmitri in depth for years - in fact, you may have seen him speak. He has heard this tale about Serge too, and not from Greg, who he doesn't know. It came from another Romanov historian; no idea where she heard it first; but I should add that Witte mentions rumours that Serge abused or took advantage of young cadets. My friend had a qualified child analyst consider the claim that Dmitri was abused, and received the opinion that his personality showed definite signs of trauma consistent with something of the kind (depression, moodiness and so on). The clincher - precocious sexual interest in other children - was absent, but I would not be to quick to rule this theory out and label it as crazy. I happen to know this author very well indeed and he is certainly not crazy.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many; they are few.

Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #722 on: January 25, 2009, 03:59:35 PM »
LillyO, Greg King is a well respected author, and his research is  quite thourough.  It is a pity that some who have not even read his books  criticise his works. Altough he is probably more well known for his works on the Romanovs, he is  versatile in his topics he writes. 

The Duchess of Windsor book was his best selling and is also his own favorite, and I think it would be a great shame if he gets labelled as a "Romanov historian" and has publishers make offers to him only about them......after a while they'd drive anyone insane.  :D
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many; they are few.

LillyO

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #723 on: January 25, 2009, 05:01:53 PM »
After getting your reviews on King's book, I am sure I picked the right book as a starting point in my reading on The Duchess of Windsor!  I also realized upon seeing the name Frances Donaldson that she was another author I was told not to depend on to be reliable. Thanks - Great help!

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #724 on: January 25, 2009, 07:15:02 PM »
The Frances Donaldson made no attempt to be fair to the Windsors, it was mostly a hacket job on them. Many people accused Wallis was self-seeking, but one must remember she had not much of a family. Only her mother and Aunt Bessie and that wasn't much. She had to fend for herself most of the time.

Offline Grace

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #725 on: January 26, 2009, 04:20:39 AM »
I always thought Aunt Bessie in particular was a real support to Wallis?  Wallis talked about her a great deal in her book and they seemed quite close.  At least that was the impression I got.

LillyO

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #726 on: January 26, 2009, 05:15:22 AM »
I also had the same impression Grace.  How about Wallis' book the Heart has it's Reasons (? I think that's the right title) - has anyone read this? If so, what did you think?


Offline Grace

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #727 on: January 26, 2009, 05:20:18 AM »
It's been a long, long time since I read this book - I think it's in a trunk in my garage - shall have to have another look, I think!  This was where I got my ideas about Aunt Bessie, if I'm not mistaken.

Offline LadyTudorRose

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #728 on: January 26, 2009, 08:48:03 AM »
I also had the same impression Grace.  How about Wallis' book the Heart has it's Reasons (? I think that's the right title) - has anyone read this? If so, what did you think?



I have it. I wouldn't really recommend it. I mean, if you can get your hands on it easily and inexpensively (like from a library or paperbackswap which is where I got my copy) it's a good one to have, but it's hard to find in most places these days and I wouldn't put a lot of time and money into getting a copy. There are only a few cute anecdotes that you can't easily find in other sources but there's a lot glossed over or left out, as people tend to do in memoirs. It seems she was so afraid of making herself look bad that she's freakishly vague about her relationship with Edward and though she mentions she first had feelings for him in 1934 she says nothing at all about when they actually got involved as more than just friends. It pretty much goes from "he would come over for fried chicken sometimes and I went on a trip on his boat" to "and then he met with the Prime Minister to decide how we would go about getting married" without giving much of an idea how they got from point A to point B. I know she had to be pretty PG and censored about the whole thing, but I'm not even talking about like sexual stuff. Just things most women would mention to give an idea how exactly they ended up in a relationship like when the first time they kissed was and when they first admitted to having feelings for each other.

Also, I have the Frances Donaldson book coming from paperbackswap and now I regret ordering it. Is it really that bad? I know it's a bit harsh but I liked the miniseries well enough, though I thought for a couple who were supposedly in love Edward and Wallis really seemed to just live in a state of UST in the whole thing and Wallis needed to grow a backbone. But it was better than the BBC one with Joely Richardson.

I also have the book on Wallis by Stephen Birmingham coming as well. Does anyone know how good that one is? One of my friends said it was pretty balanced. If no one's read it I'll be sure to post what I think of it here when I get it.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #729 on: January 26, 2009, 11:05:39 AM »
Actually there is no right or wrong answers. Most of the early books written earlier were either idealised or condemned the couple depending from which angle you took. I think the couple is still waiting for a balanced view of their lives, failures and weaknessesof course but also sympathy from where they came from.

Robert_Hall

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #730 on: January 26, 2009, 11:14:46 AM »
Wallis' book was ghost written [as was the Duke's] so I would not put much trust into them. They are basically apologias, of a sort.
  I think Birmingham is pretty good, but it has been a while since I read that one.
  I also think both Eric & Grace are correct. That is, Wallis did not have much of a family  but Aunt Bessie was her most reliable friend. As I recall, she even brought her aunt to Europe for support.
 IMO, King's book is still the best. Even though he is a tad slanted in favour of the Duchess.

Offline mcdnab

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #731 on: January 26, 2009, 12:46:13 PM »
Even after all these years I think it is still difficult to find a fair account of the abdication and the subsequent relationship between the Windsors and the rest of the Royal Family. Of all the characters involved we've only ever had the actual accounts of the Windsors in their memoirs which to be fair aren't the most reliable historical records but nor should they be entirely ignored.
As far as the family were concerned i think it would be fair to say that they preferred to overlook "dear David's" failings and preferred instead to blame Wallis for his behaviour and the abdication.
The rift between the two sides - based on their surviving letters and the recollections of most courtiers involved with both sides - sugests that the fault lay on both sides. Edward's obsession with money and his determination to maintain his lifestyle to avoid suggestions that he'd lost "caste" by abdicating and then marrying Wallis (hence his incessant demands over form, his obsession with the HRH issue and his general fear of taxation, his desire for maintaining some kind of public profile hence his ill advised trip to Germany and speech from Verdun ahead of George VI's departure for Canada and America) on the other side George VI's determination that Wallis should not be HRH, his fear of being overshadowed by his brother, his desire for them not to return, his anger over his brother's behaviour in exile and his fury over what he considered his brother's lies over their financial agreements (which dated back to George V's will and the fact that Edward VIII didn't disclose his private savings when his brother promised him an allowance after the abdication).
To answer the question about the influence of Queen Elizabeth - she certainly had considerable influence on her husband (despite the image she preferred to present to the world) and there is enough evidence to suggest that she disliked Wallis (like Queen Mary and most of the Royal Family they were convinced his behaviour was all "that womans" fault) - I don't believe as has been often posited that she "hated" her. I don't doubt that the Queen as Duchess of York was possibly aware of how Wallis and David referred to her, but I suspect that if she had known she wouldn't have been as angry as her husband (who adored his wife) and Elizabeth was also known to have a certain fondness for the odd bitchy comment herself. Granted in the early years of their reign Elizabeth was determined to keep them as far away as possible (she was perhaps more aware than most of how the Duke's brothers had always admired him, feared the effect of how her husband would be compared to the Duke if they returned and she is on record as being rather uncharitable towards the Duchess), but to blame the Queen for the entire attitude of the court and government isn't accurate. It was their new Prime Minister Chamberlain who was most disgusted with the Duke of Windsor over the financial settlement and his subsequent behaviour, and even the Windsors' old ally Churchill quickly fell out with the Duke after he assumed the premiership over his demands and behaviour during and just after the fall of France and his subsequent behaviour in the Caribbean. Most people who knew the late Queen Elizabeth suggest that whilst she certainly didn't like or approve of Wallis she didn't hate her (most of those quoted on this did know the Queen well and weren't at all unwilling to criticise her behaviour).
I think someone mentioned the family scrabbling around to try and get back "royal" items that David had given Wallis - the only person who seems to have carried on "dropping" in was Louis Mountbatten and its highly unlikely that it was at either the Queen or the Queen Mother's suggestion - in fact one of the few things that the Queen Mother and Wallis agreed on was a shared distrust of "Dickie" Mountbatten.

Over time these kind of things become myths don't they - there's an element of truth in all the oft repeated arguements about the abdication and its aftermath - but it's not necessarily the truth.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #732 on: January 26, 2009, 01:06:29 PM »
I agree. Even Queen Mary soften her stance against Wallis when she inquire about "your wife" in a letter and a strand of pearls (which Wallis wore at the Duke's furneral). In "Royal Feud" the tone was more vendatta and more personal in the case of Elizabeth, The Queen Mother towards Wallis. However by the end of the book, she reconciled with Wallis (although by that time Wallis had begun her decline into darkness...).

LillyO

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #733 on: January 28, 2009, 04:14:55 PM »
BBC On This Day         Here You can find actual footage (broadcast by the BBC) of the funeral's of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.  (each is just a few minutes long)

Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)
« Reply #734 on: January 29, 2009, 09:46:26 AM »
Yes...Princess Diana and the Queen Mother attended the furneral of the Duchess of Windsor.