King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)

[Lindelle]

Robert

I agree. She did perform a considerable service for the British monarchy, albeit unintentionally. Where would we have finished up had Edward VIII stayed on the throne?

Ann

I could not agree more. Edward as it turned out was not it seems suitable and seems to have put self before Crown, country and it's people. George VI was a superb monarch and the right man for the time. Elizabeth II has never put a foot wrong and understand the meaning of duty as well.  Had Edward remained I am not sure he would have been a liked and respected King, sadly. He had as a young man shown such promise and was loved. I always remember my Mother saying when he came back here to be buried that she said "he was our King" butt that was before the selfish side came out.

Michael

Michael, maybe your Mother was a wise woman. I agree, things would've been so different if ONLY he'd had a chance.

[Grace]

He had a chance, HE was the one who decided to throw it all away when he couldn't have things the way he wanted them.  Not as if he was "sacked"!

[Michael HR]

I agree, in Mrs Simpson he showed his true colours and the throne was much better off without him as it turned out. Duty before everything else is not something Edward VIII was comfortable with.

[Emperor of the Dominions]

I agree, in Mrs Simpson he showed his true colours and the throne was much better off without him as it turned out. Duty before everything else is not something Edward VIII was comfortable with.

Perhaps he saw himself as the direct opposite of his mother, and eventually rebelled? One imagines his influences were mostly from his mother in his formative years, as his father appeared more distant to him. No doubt he had seen and heard how much she had given of herself to Crown and Country, first to Eddie then Georgie. Clearly his heart was more important to him than the good of Britain.

His comment about his mother having "iced water running through her veins" rather than the passion that identifies with warm blood and with which he seemed more comfortable, is perhaps the key. Additionally, it would have been clear within informed circles that by late 1935 his duty to the nation would have to intensify, as the storm clouds gathered apropos Germany, therefore his exit visa was guaranteed by his 'love' of Wallis.

There can be no doubt however that when George VI and Queen Elizabeth stood forward to be counted, Britain was saved from the effects of fascism. Today we can see their daughter as our Queen, demonstrating how duty is all important in the role of constitutional monarch within the United Kingdom. One can only conclude that the abdication was a blessing in disguise, saving us from a King who has decided self gratification was the order of the day and who lacked backbone.

R.I. 

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

I guess he should have listened to his distant ancestress the Electress Sophia's grandson King Friedrich the Great of Prussia: "Seine Pflicht erkennen und tun, das ist die Hauptsache.", To realize one's duty and do it, that's what it's all about. Old Fritz was homosexual, but still he faced up to his duty to the state and killed a lot of people. (Or was that Ernst Röhm?) Good old Prussian values, that's the best remedy against fascism, if malum malo medicari.

Just chatting aimlessly away, as this topic has been discussed ad nauseam. I just never realized how popular Queen Mary was in Britain for her Prussian sense of duty.

[royal_netherlands]

Little 'Bertie', Mary and Albert in the year of the death of their great-grandmother Queen Victoria (1901).

[royal_netherlands]

Three years earlier than the photograph posted above, this one was taken of 'May' and her two oldest sons: 'Bertie' and 'David' in 1898. The festivities of The Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria was just behind them.

[Lindelle]

Just look at that waist!
She must be really pulled in tight.

[RoyalWatcher]

I'm really pleased that the tradition of having young boys wear dresses is no longer in fashion. When I first looked at the wonderful photo, which I had never seen before...thank you, Royal_Netherlands, I thought it was Mary not Bertie!

[belianis]

... so why didn't he resign his rights while he still had the chance?
He had three brothers, so obviously the survival of the dynasty did not depend solely on him.

[Emperor of the Dominions]

Because assuming that is true, and you may be right, Mrs Simpson was the extra catalyst he needed. To incur the wrath of the Royal Family just because he didn't want to fulfill his birthright would be a tremendous weight to bear on his own, with Mrs Simpson he found his get out clause and therefore did not shoulder the blame alone. Indeed she bore the brunt of all the bad feeling as she 'stole our King'. The abdication was unprecedented, and not a move to undertake just because he didn't feel up to it, or want the Throne.

R.I.

[LadyCathy]

I must respectfully disagree.  Edward VIII was too afraid of his father to do anything before the King died.  Once the King was dead he showed himself to ba neglectful King.  He left state papers lying around and returned them with liquor stains and cigarette burns.  He hated Buckingham Palace and said it was "very draughty."  He could have married Wallis before he was crowned but he chose not to.  He left his country, his people and his family not so much because of the woman he loved but because he was a true Nazi sympathizer and the government did not want him to be King.  He was a loose cannon.  Wallis was monitored by British Intelligence going in and out of the German Embassy and both of them consorted openly with the fascists.  By threatening to abdicate the DOW played right into Baldwin's hands, giving him the opportunity to get him off the throne and out of the country.

[Grace]

Despite persisting rumours, what genuine evidence has ever been found that he was a "true Nazi sympathizer"?  Surely if that was the case then he would have aligned himself with them once he was free to do so and evidence just doesn't support that he ever did, as far as I can see.  Personally, I think he was a weak and self-centred man, but not a traitor.

[mcdnab]

It is an interesting debate -
Certain members of the establishment believed that he didn't want to succeed by the mid thirties and one person has been quoted as saying he was convinced that Edward had intended to elope with Mrs Simpson but his father's health and imminent death had come to soon.
Another source suggests that Edward initially believed that his succession would make his marriage easier (which on paper it did given that the RMA doesn't apply to a reigning monarch - although the Protestant Oath given the church's view of divorce in 36 soon put paid to his view on that). I do believe that until very late he thought despite the opposition of his family and the establishment (there was some considerable public support for him and the marriage) that he would get his own way - Queen Empress of India the whole bage of tricks as he put it - but with his threat to go if he couldn't marry he played into Baldwin's hands.
I think we have to be extremely careful about allegations of being pro nazi when were talking about the late 1930's. Firstly many many people at all levels of society in Western Europe had appalling memories of the First World War and were exceptionally reluctant to even contemplate a Second one. Secondly the true horror of Nazi Germany was not widely known, was sometimes considered to be exaggerated and if we're being entirely honest there was in a large part of society still a large amount of prejudice about people from Jewish backgrounds. Even the American Government in 1936 was or allowed itself to be conned into letting its athlete's compete in the Olympics despite a strong campaign for a boycott.
George VI, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary were as much pro-appeasement as Edward VIII. Being anti war or pro german in the late 1930's didn't automatically make you a fascist.
Edward's pro-german tendencies were in part based on his experiences in France during the First World War (although he was kept very far from the front line), his visit to Germany in 1913 and his relationship with some of his german cousins.
His decision to visit Nazi Germany after the abdication was in part motivated by his desire to still occupy some kind of role - his staff and those of George VI found that he had trouble coping with the change from being someone whose every hour was planned out to days of idle pleasure - and Germany was one of the few places that invited him. He wasn't the brightest individual and was desperate for someone to show Wallis some kind of public acknowledgement.
They also got involved with some highly dubious characters in the late thirties - in part this was because they'd been cut adrift and had little support from the Foreign office (in the way other British VIP's abroad wouldn't have been) - how much either of them new about the political views and opinions of some of those individuals is hard to prove. Edward in particular was so bitter about his treatment by the government of first Baldwin and then Chamberlain (who disliked Edward and was exceptionally fond of King George and Queen Elizabeth - he once described her as the only Royalty he found he could get on with) and the Royal Family that he was seen as pretty much on easy target by those people who thought to use him.
During the period before the abdication and particularly after his accession Wallis was considered a safe route to the King - she wasn't politically aware and even the most sympathetic of biographers have admitted that her knowledge of how a constitutional monarchy worked was simplistic - the German authorities were well aware of Edward's own personal views (he'd seen some of his cousins including the Duke of Saxe Coburg Gotha during his father's funeral) and Ribbentrop was definately encouraged to court "the lady". But so did huge sections of what we would probably call high society - more importantly treating Wallis in this way pleased the King who had a rather sincere sense of chivalry about her and how she was treated.
During the war his behaviour wasn't much better and there are a number of accusations against Edward in particular - some very dodgy currency deals in the Bahamas for example, his lack of discretion and his actions during and after the fall of France which annoyed Churchill in particular. Unfortunately much of this allowed him to be labelled as pro-nazi - his brother King George VI doesn't seem to have taken that too seriously - in fact he joked once about his "Quisling brother".

PS Almost the entire Royal Family dislike Buckingham Palace! George VI and Queen Elizabeth hardly ever stayed there during the war (spending their nights at Windsor and only returning to the Palace during the day. You can't blame them if you read Eleanor Roosevelt's account of conditions there during the War.

[Constantinople]

Well he went to Germany to meet Hitler on at least one ocassion and tehre were a number of other proofs that he was  sympathetic when he was in France and had Nazis guarding the chateau for him
One of the reason that he was shifted to become governor of Bermuda was that noone trusted him in Europe or Britain and it was well known that he have been approached by the Nazis and told that if Britain lost the war, they would reinstate him as king

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