King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)

[Constantinople]

İ found the following in an article about old Life pieces
In 1936, Edward VIII abdicated to marry the woman he loved, a divorcee Mrs Wallis Simpson.However, the Guardian claimed that the king’s decision was due to Mrs. Simpson being a Nazi sympathizer and this was totally unacceptable to the prime minister at the time, Stanley Baldwin. The former Austrian ambassador, Count Albert von Mensdorff-Pouilly-Dietrichstein, who was also a second cousin once removed and friend of George V, believed that Edward himself favoured German fascism as a bulwark against communism.

In 1941, while they were holidaying in Florida, the exiled former king and his consort, now the Duke and the Duchess of Windsor, were spied upon by the FBI on the orders of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. These FBI files, written in the 1940s and now released under America’s Freedom of Information Act, detailed that the Duchess might have been passing secrets to a leading Nazi with whom she was thought to have had an affair and that His Majesty’s Government had known for the fact for some time.

Following Edward’s accession, the German embassy in London sent a cable for the personal attention of Hitler himself. It read: “An alliance between Germany and Britain is for him (the King) an urgent necessity.” In October 1937, the Windsors visited Nazi Germany, met Hitler at his Obersalzberg retreat (above), dined with his deputy, Rudolf Hess, and even visited a concentration camp. The camp’s guard towers were explained away as meat stores for the inmates. The visit was against the advice of the British government and during the visit the Duke gave full Nazi salutes.

At the outbreak of war, the duke served as a military liaison officer in Paris. Hitler made an abortive attempt to bring Edward and his wife to Nazi-sympathetic Spain, and greatly alarmed, the British establishment finally packing the duke off to the Bahamas from 1940-45. Deeply disenchanted by the society that had spun him, the Duke made his Nazi sympathies explicit, once telling a journalist that “it would be a tragic thing for the world if Hitler was overthrown”. In another break from his usual unassuming boyish behavior, he remarked, “After the war is over and Hitler will crush the Americans. We’ll take over. They (the British) don’t want me as their King, but I’ll be back as their leader.”

After the war, the duke and duchess returned to France. He died there in 1972, while the Duchess lived on until 1986.

[Kalafrana]

I'm not sure whether the Duke of Windsor was an active Nazi sympathiser. However, as a man who was both embittered and lacking in judgement he was an obvious target for approaches from the Nazi leadership, and his actions did nothing to dispel suspicions.

It is really not surprising that George VI, Churchill etc wanted to keep him well out of the way in 1940-45.

Ann

[damaskrose]

Does anyone know what any children they might have had would have been titled, with regard to HRH or Prince/Princess?

If I remember reading right, any descendents of David and Wallis would have no title of any kind.   This "errant branch" of the royal family tree was to be pruned off where it split.

There was that rumor that they briefly considered adopting a child, and possibly naming him "David Windsor."  My guess is the feeling behind the thought had little to do with the desire to nurture and raise a child, but probably for other reasons less sincere.   Probably a good thing nothing came of it.  The child would have been raised by nannies, and shipped off early to boarding school.  The dogs were their substitute children, and no doubt satisfied whatever, if any, parental leanings David and Wallis had.********Thank you for this opportunity to respond.Wallis stated in her autobiography "The Heart has it's Reasons"that her one deep regret in her life was her inability to bear children.I believe in her sincerity in this regard.The children of the Duke and Duchesses friends,relatives and staff were treated not only to the Duchesses gaiety and sense of humour,but her kindness,gentleness and generous nature.The Duchess loved especially an old fashioned traditional Christmas celebration.There is no reson in my opinion to believe The Windsors would not have been superb parents.Perhaps even as in many cases,would have changed their lives for the better.

**

[Kalafrana]

His Majesty's Declaration of Abdication Act 1936, which gave formal effect to the abdication, specifically excluded any children the Duke might have from the royal succession and royal titles. Presumably any natural children he might have had would have had the ordinary courtesy titles accorded to the children of a Duke. The Adoption Act 1926 makes an adopted child the legal offspring of the adoptive parents, except for inheriting titles (so the adopted son of the late Earl of Swinton did not succeed to the earldom and is plain Mr Cunliffe-Lister).

I can't help thinking that it was a good thing the Duke of Windsor didn't have any children.

Ann

[Vecchiolarry]

Dear Ann,

I can't help thinking that her famous statement, "One can neither be too rich nor too thin" would be altered to "But, with a baby-bump not so good"!!!!!

Larry

[LadyCathy]

He was also well aware that if Hitler won he intended to depose George VI and Queen Elizabeth and reinstate the DOW on the throne along with his Queen, Her Majesty Bessiewallis Warfield Spencer Simpson Windsor.  David loved his German side.  His host when he went to visit Hitler was his cousin Charles Edward, Duke of Coburg, Prince Leopold's son.  This man was a rabid Nazi and vicious anti-Semite.  He was made head of the Old
Comrade's Association, a group of men who had been followers of Hitler from the beginning.  He was also made head of the German Red Cross.  As such he was fully aware of the euthanasia being practiced on the mentally ill, retarded and socially unacceptable citizens of Germany.  I also read somewhere that he had run a concentration camp but am unable to find the reference.  When Germany went down in defeat, the Duke of Coburg was immediately arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned for war crimes.  Due to crippling arthritis he was released after a year but fined within an inch of his life and relegated to living in a small cottage adjoining the stables of his castle.  His wife, Princess Victoria Adelaide, had to walk miles to find food for them both and they were sometimes seen scrounging on garbage dumps.  The Dukes' sister, Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone who was married to Queen Mary's brother, went to Germany and saw to it that he eventually got easier living conditions and his wife closer access to food.  I personally have no doubt that the DOW would not have fought on Germany's side in the war, but I do think he saw an opportunity to get what he wanted most--his wife as Queen of England.

[Constantinople]

Well there seems to be documented proof of Wallis passing information to the Germans and of close collaboration when Edward was living in France

[damaskrose]

There was never any proof that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were Nazi sympathizers or collaborated with the Third Reich.Wallis explains in detail her impression of their trip to Germany and David's indignation on the subject of German expansion .There will always be division on the subject of The Windsors.However to exile them for 36 years was unnecessary.Only welcoming their lifeless bodies for burial.There were deep and hurtful injustices done to EdwardVIII.Perhaps in the minds of many to portray him as some weak minded simpleton  makes his mistreatment deserved.That it makes the laws broken to deny his wife her lawful title acceptable.That it justifys his estrangement from his flesh and blood.There is plenty of blame to go around in this situation.Not all of it rests squarely on the shoulders of The Duke and Duchess of Windsor.imo

[LadyTudorRose]

There was never any proof that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were Nazi sympathizers or collaborated with the Third Reich.Wallis explains in detail her impression of their trip to Germany and David's indignation on the subject of German expansion .There will always be division on the subject of The Windsors.However to exile them for 36 years was unnecessary.Only welcoming their lifeless bodies for burial.There were deep and hurtful injustices done to EdwardVIII.Perhaps in the minds of many to portray him as some weak minded simpleton  makes his mistreatment deserved.That it makes the laws broken to deny his wife her lawful title acceptable.That it justifys his estrangement from his flesh and blood.There is plenty of blame to go around in this situation.Not all of it rests squarely on the shoulders of The Duke and Duchess of Windsor.imo

I agree. There's not much in the way of solid evidence for the Nazi thing. I don't know what happened; I wasn't there. But I feel like in some ways if the exact same stories had gone around (with the same level of evidence) for some less "scandalous" royals who weren't black sheep or anything it wouldn't have been nearly as widely believed.

I did a multi-part post on Wallis on my blog. Well it was originally on Jezebel, but I made a blog for it. Still researching some stuff and fixing errors, but if anyone wants to read it, feel free. I'm probably not right about everything, though.
http://ladytudorrose.blogspot.com/2010/05/wallis-part-1.html

[Constantinople]

Well I am sure that if those memoires were written after the war, I am sure she would have reconstructed her memories but if you look at the picture taken of them with Hitler all you can see is pride and ecstasy.

[Kalafrana]

Damaskrose

There was nothing unlawful about denying Mrs Simpson the HRH. The courtesy titles of members of the royal family are a matter of prerogative power, and just as there is a power to allow them, there is a power to deny them.

As to keeping the Duke and Duchess out of the country, an ex-king is by definition a potential embarrassment to his successor and best kept out of the way - someone has noted on another thread that Boris III of Bulgaria never allowed his father, the ex-king Ferdinand, to visit Bulgaria. And let's face it, the actions of the Duke and Duchess between 1937 and 1945 hardly show them to be reliable people who would be content to live quietly in Britain and stay out of the public eye. There is an element of vicious circle here, but it was inevitable that George VI and later the present Queen were going to tread carefully where the Duke was concerned and keep him out of the way.

It is rather like the Duchess of York expecting to be welcomed into the bosom of the royal family after a lengthy succession of gaffes (to put it kindly).

Ann

[Constantinople]

Anyone who thinks there is no evidence that the Duke and Duchess of Windsors were Nazi sympathisers or more should read this.  it was published in the Guardian.
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/6-29-2002-21438.asp
there are a lot of other articles floatinag around the internet.  The sources for this story are British government sources and the FBI

[CountessKate]

There isn't an iota of actual evidence in the whole farrago.  It was simply a collection of unverifiable assertations from unamed sources, much of it clearly smutty gossip.  (Wurttemburg monks for heaven's sake!  Tacking on a possible connection to the Duke's mother and uncle hardly makes this a credible source).  And if the FBI were indeed under the impression that the Duchess of Windsor's pro-German sympathies gave them "strong reason to believe that this is the reason why she was considered so obnoxious to the British government that they refused to permit Edward to marry her and maintain the throne" they certainly had no clue as to the realities of the situation.  Undoubtedly the Duke and Duchess had displayed pro-Nazi sympathies before the war, and the Duke had made a rather indiscreet comment about Britain's abilities to beat the Germans, but the rest looks like the usual wartime hysteria and completely unsubstantiated.  What happened when the Windsors were actually under the direct eye of the FBI?  An "English socialite" (Who?  Why was the FBI so coy about revealing this person's name to their boss, unless it was someone with either a grudge against the Windsors, or completely unreliable) "had told an informant" some old rubbish which apparently had "definite proof" which was not produced.  This is the best evidence the FBI could come up with for more treasonous activity?  I'd say the Duke and Duchess would be laughing.

[Constantinople]

The FBI would have had the source recorded but separately.  Considering the position of Edward, it is highly unlikely that the FBI would have been catalogueing unsubstantiated gossip nor M15.  And the Duke of Wurtemburg comes up again and again.  Just because you disagree with it doesnt discount everything.

[Constantinople]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foi/images/0,9069,1443560,00.html
here is the original
there are two more