King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)

[Robert_Hall]

OT, I know, but I know even less about the Kardashians, Alixz. I keep seeing their names in the  "celebrity" news but have no clue as what  makes them so worthy of attention. I did not even know who Paris Hilton was until  we could not avoid her on the news.
 At least Paris  works [at times] to support animal causes.  Maybe  just for positive PR, but at least it is a worthy effort.
  Did the Windsors ever contribute money or effort on behalf of their beloved pugs ?

[historyfan]

Robert Kardashian was OJ's lawyer.

Anyway, back to topic...

[DNAgenie]

I think the Duke of Windsor lacked the imagination to forsee what would happen when he abdicated. IMO he thought he would get the best of both worlds: a secure income and continued respect for his position within the Royal Family, but without any of the royal responsibilities he found so irksome. I think the Duchess did foresee the consequences, at least in outline, so she tried to back out before the abdication, whereupon David put on an act and threatened suicide, etc.

After the abdication, when reality hit home to the Duke, he behaved like a spoilt child and tried every way he could to get back to some sort of facsimile to the position he had once held. That this might involve fraud and deception didn't seem to worry him in the least.  

I have never felt much empathy with the Duchess, but she did remain loyal to her husband and I admire her for that, if not for much else.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened to David if Mrs Simpson had never come into his life.  I suspect that he would have made a fool of himself with someone else, but that is pure speculation. Consequently I think that Queen Elizabeth was somewhat misguided in blaming the whole thing on the Duchess, who just happened to meet him at the wrong time. I don't blame her for detesting the woman, but I believe David was a disaster waiting to happen.

[Alixz]

See I think that the Duchess remained loyal because she had no where else to turn.  If she had left David after he abdicated or even after the wedding, she would have been "black listed" in every county in the world.  Her reputation as an adventuress would have been secure.  She was between a rock and hard place and didn't have any way out.

So whether or not the marriage worked or did not work, she had to make it look like it did for her own social standing.  And I think that her social standing meant everything to her.  That a the cushy lifestyle that she had made her objective in life.

I think you are right about David, though, I think that he thought he could abdicate and retire to the Fort and just be who he had always been.  The social butterfly of the family, but with no royal duties except those which would have suited him.

[LadyTudorRose]

See I think that the Duchess remained loyal because she had no where else to turn.  If she had left David after he abdicated or even after the wedding, she would have been "black listed" in every county in the world.  Her reputation as an adventuress would have been secure.  She was between a rock and hard place and didn't have any way out.

So whether or not the marriage worked or did not work, she had to make it look like it did for her own social standing.  And I think that her social standing meant everything to her.  That a the cushy lifestyle that she had made her objective in life.

I don't buy that at all. Wallis was certainly much better off with David than without him, but she wouldn't have been blacklisted. She might not have been A-list, but people would certainly have been interested in her. I think her situation might've been comparable to Fergie after her most recent scandals. Of course I legitimately believe Wallis wanted to be with David. I don't buy for a second she was capable of maintaining a fake relationship for thirty-five years. I don't even think that kind of deception is possible. If it was there are quite a few celebrity marriages that would've lasted longer.

[LadyCathy]

The Queen Mother did not blame it all on Wallis.  She hated and despised David for what he did.  David Windsor was not only spoilt, he was exceptionally stupid.  King George V knew that his son would destroy himself once he did not have his father roaring and calling the shots.  I do not believe David wanted to be King of England.  He did not like Buckingham Palace, he found it "very draughty."  The government did not want him because of his Nazi leaning and his fascist buddies.  He was a rotten king who left state papers lying around or returned them with liquor stains and cigarette burns on them.  They farmed the Windsors out to the Bahamas to get them out of the way and to forestall any kidnapping threats against them.  If the marriage had not worked out I believe that Wallis would have been looked upon as the "bad" one.  The way she carried on with Jimmy Donahue was the talk of New York.  She was out on the dance floor hugging Jimmy and dancing while the Duke of Windsor sat in misery alone at the table.  It was disgraceful.  Jimmy Donahue was gay, but Wallis may have had lovers that we know nothing about. 

[Eric_Lowe]

I think the Queen Mum did not dislike the Duke as much as she did Wallis, later in life she reflected with affection the happy days at the Fort before Wallis came "He was such fun then." she would sigh. It did not seem to come from an embittered woman. Her venom was concentrated on Wallis, no HRH, no curtsy, no official role for her.

[Selencia]

See I think that the Duchess remained loyal because she had no where else to turn.  If she had left David after he abdicated or even after the wedding, she would have been "black listed" in every county in the world.  Her reputation as an adventuress would have been secure.  She was between a rock and hard place and didn't have any way out.

So whether or not the marriage worked or did not work, she had to make it look like it did for her own social standing.  And I think that her social standing meant everything to her.  That a the cushy lifestyle that she had made her objective in life.

I don't buy that at all. Wallis was certainly much better off with David than without him, but she wouldn't have been blacklisted. She might not have been A-list, but people would certainly have been interested in her. I think her situation might've been comparable to Fergie after her most recent scandals. Of course I legitimately believe Wallis wanted to be with David. I don't buy for a second she was capable of maintaining a fake relationship for thirty-five years. I don't even think that kind of deception is possible. If it was there are quite a few celebrity marriages that would've lasted longer.

I don't buy that blacklisted excuse either. If Wallis did stay with Edward out of loyalty to him then I think it shows a good character trait of hers, which is something most people want to believe Wallis did not have. I have come to believe that she did not want to marry him and would have been happy to stay with her second husband; but with all the he11 Edward had caused, even if she did not want to be his wife, I tend to think she stayed with him out of loyalty and not to embarrass him after all he had done to be with her. Perhaps both Wallis and Edward came to their marriage with a lot of baggage; she didn't want to be his wife, and he possibly used her so he wouldn't have to be king.

[Selencia]

Well lets face it, none of us could think of giving away a kingdom for a woman. He could have had it all if he was more devious, to keep his throne and Wallis as chief mistress (lot of men would do that). But he didn't, he wanted to marry her and share her life. It is really profound in which way you put it. Wallis knew that and spoke of the burden of living it up (the romance of the century) "He gave up so much for me !". So what ever people might say, I think that act was reckless and romantic. If you look at the whole thing from that angle, you could understand the fascination for the Windsors. Compared with Carol II of Romania or King Alfonso XIII, it was only one woman for him for life--Wallis. I think he was very honest in his love and never look back or regretted anything. 

Edward probably could have had it all if he was more devious and evil ala Henry VIII. But I honestly think he did not want to be King and was probably living his dream outside of England with Wallis. I like to believe he missed his brother, but that is open to question because he did not believe his brother treated Wallis with respect, and probably blamed Elizabeth for that. Whatever kept them together, it must have been something strong, something that a lot of couples today do not have.

[LadyTudorRose]

See I think that the Duchess remained loyal because she had no where else to turn.  If she had left David after he abdicated or even after the wedding, she would have been "black listed" in every county in the world.  Her reputation as an adventuress would have been secure.  She was between a rock and hard place and didn't have any way out.

So whether or not the marriage worked or did not work, she had to make it look like it did for her own social standing.  And I think that her social standing meant everything to her.  That a the cushy lifestyle that she had made her objective in life.

I don't buy that at all. Wallis was certainly much better off with David than without him, but she wouldn't have been blacklisted. She might not have been A-list, but people would certainly have been interested in her. I think her situation might've been comparable to Fergie after her most recent scandals. Of course I legitimately believe Wallis wanted to be with David. I don't buy for a second she was capable of maintaining a fake relationship for thirty-five years. I don't even think that kind of deception is possible. If it was there are quite a few celebrity marriages that would've lasted longer.

I don't buy that blacklisted excuse either. If Wallis did stay with Edward out of loyalty to him then I think it shows a good character trait of hers, which is something most people want to believe Wallis did not have. I have come to believe that she did not want to marry him and would have been happy to stay with her second husband; but with all the he11 Edward had caused, even if she did not want to be his wife, I tend to think she stayed with him out of loyalty and not to embarrass him after all he had done to be with her. Perhaps both Wallis and Edward came to their marriage with a lot of baggage; she didn't want to be his wife, and he possibly used her so he wouldn't have to be king.

If you read her letters to him it looks like she loved him. It didn't consume her the way she consumed him, but it was certainly there. She missed him terribly when they were apart.

[Eric_Lowe]

I think after Win Spencer, it took Wallis quite awhile before she really fell in love with anybody. In the end, he became her life.

[Alixz]

I don't think that everyone here realizes the difference between society in the 1930s and society in the days of Fergie.

I do think that Wallis had no choice and made the best of a bad situation.  I think that Eric and I probably agree on one thing and that is that Wallis didn't love anyone for a while after her divorce from Ernest Simpson. 

Many many women stayed in bad marriages back in the day.  Divorce was a scandal (that is why Wallis was so repugnant to the Royal family) and after two divorces with two living husbands, I think that Wallis had to do the best she could to continue in the life she so wanted.  One of money and security and fame.

I think that most doors would have been closed to her if she had not made a go of her marriage to David.  That is something that we in our generation don't see anymore.  People marry and divorce in a heartbeat and it has become socially acceptable.  But back in the 1930s it wasn't acceptable at all.  That is why Wallis was such a problem for David and the rest of the Royal family.

I have even said that I think she grew to love him and some of the pictures certainly show smiles that look genuine, but I still think that her marriage to David put her between the proverbial rock and a hard place and she was stuck.  Leaving him would have only proved that she was the adventuress that she was thought to be and I think that her life would have been very bleak indeed as those whom she thought were her friends "turned their backs on her".

It was the times.  Times have changed for us but back then societal rules and mores were so much stricter.

[Robert_Hall]

 I do not know what "love" meant to Wallis Superficially, it would seem the security, worldly pleasures and  dominating as a star. According to what I have read, so far, there was no sex life between them at least not in the conventional sense,  so that would rule out passion. And I can well understand the stigma of divorce.  Even  when I was young, in the 50-60's, when a friend's parents  divorced, it was a hidden shame [but still gossiped about].
 If she had divorced-again, I can see her being a Hedda Hopper of  Europe,  bringing in a fairly decent income on her own.

[Eric_Lowe]

I think Wallis & David were very affectionate towards each other and fascinated one another. One being the Prince and the other American woman who had been to places (from Baltimore to Shanghai to London) and with a different point of view. I actually heard that they had quite an interesting sex life with some of the people whose parents hosted them in the United States & France from the early days to the 50's. However I agree their relationship was anything but conventional. I however do not agree that just because she was more sensible in her marriage made her calculating or manipulative. That particular brand of American woman still exists today like "The Real Housewives of ......". They do NOT WORK and just SPEND their husband's money and COMPLAIN about their lives. Compared to them, Wallis after her marriage to David was a class act.

[Robert_Hall]

Baltimore and class do not exactly go together. Baltimore was once a fine city, but lost it "class" post bellum.
 I do not know who told you, Eric, about their sex life, but I doubt  it very much, as  every bio I have read   makes them to be asexual. Be that as it may, I am sorry I brought it up. Their sex life was between them and we should keep it that way.