King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)

[Kalafrana]

To illustrate Alixz's point, George VI took a close interest in the RAF, and in the late 1930s one Air Vice Marshal (equivalent to a Major General) was required to retire on the basis of the king's influence after he divorced. I am racking my brains to remember his name, but my father has the biography.

Ann

[Martyn]

I saw that. I don't feel they backed up any of their assertions at all. Those letters didn't really document anything as to what she was feeling to either Ernest or David, and they certainly didn't back up any sexual speculation or anything. It was very similar to another documentary from a few years back by the same network called "The Queen Mother in Love" which also used letters to make various claims they really didn't support.

I agree.  The programme felt like a new spin on an old topic.  There is also the possibility that Wallis was playing both ends against the middle, in writing in fulsome terms to both men at the same time.

[Kalafrana]

'There is also the possibility that Wallis was playing both ends against the middle, in writing in fulsome terms to both men at the same time.'

I think that's entirely possible. She strikes me as a very calculating person.

Ann

[Robert_Hall]

Although C4's documentaries can be interesting, they are not BBC quality so I take them  as news light. Tabloid perhaps.  I have the Wallis letters programme here on DVD but have barely watched it. 
 "Calculating" is a good word for the lady.  Wish I had thought of it.

[LadyTudorRose]

Well, there was an obvious motive for Wallis to try to keep both men in the picture for as long as she possibly could. She wasn't psychic and had no way of knowing for certain David would stay in love with her for the rest of his life. I'm sure Wallis had heard from men in the past that they'd always love her when that wasn't really the case. I really do think she loved David more, but she'd rather go back to Ernest than die alone.

[Alixz]

Since we always seem to focus on Wallis, I had actually not thought about David and whether or not he would have "stayed in love with her".  I wonder if he ever thought about that himself as the years went on.

I have always believed that she could not leave him after the scandal that their relationship and the abdication caused, but I wonder now if he ever wondered if he did the right thing in giving up the throne and his future as king.  He was also bound by the constraints of society and the rules that I posted from Massie and Dreadnought.

I now wonder if either Wallis or David ever woke up one morning and thought (like having a bad hangover) what have I done?

Who would he have married had he not abdicated and given Wallis back to Ernest?  (Like she was a sack of used clothing.) Up until meeting Wallis, he had never expressed an interest in marriage and I am surprised that, aside from weak indications of a match with Olga Nikolaevna, King George V had not just ordered him to marry "to give him a firm foundation" as the royals liked to think of marriage.

[Robert_Hall]

Who has not heard that line, Jeniann, at one time or another ?
 Waillis was not stupid, I give her a lot of credit for looking after herself first.
 Alixz, interesting question about Edward VIII,  Strictly IMO,  the scenario would have been  vastly different.  It seems, as not many potential brides were trotted  before him,, there was no rush to marry him off. Perhaps it was an attempt to avoid Victoria's notorious matchmaking ? Also, after the Great War,  royal  brides were a scare commodity. Plenty of exiles or dethroned ones, but they were bad for image and  cost.
 And IF he had remained on the throne, I imagine the monarchy would have been even further  curtailed from it's constitutional role.  Especially under Churchill, who suffered few fools. As he could not possibly marry Wallis as king, if he was "back burnered" he might well be able to keep her as mistress, which,  again, IMO would have suited her just fine.
 I do not know, but tubes tied or not, was she not too old to have children ?  If so, there was no threat there. [forgive my ignorance on female reproductive routine].
 Of course all this is hypothetical, as we all know what did happen.

[feodorovna]

At 40 she was capable of conceiving, provided that her reproductive system was in working order, provided she had not had a hysterectomy and provided she had a fertile partner. I've often wondered why she had not had children with her previous husbands. With David, she allowed it to be believed that their childlessness was due to him being "Not heir conditioned." Possibilities are that she was either naturally infertile, had been steralized without her husbands' knowledge because she never wanted children or at some time in her life had a badly done abortion. Whatever the reason, and I think I've thrown in all the variables, I don't see them as parents, they were far too self oriented.

[Eddie_uk]

I've often wondered why she had not had children with her previous husbands.

Too selfish perhaps? Besides she never struck me as the maternal type. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Robert_Hall]

Eddie, glad you chimed in here, I was getting a bit lonely !
 Feodorovna, thank you for your excellent response.  I had reckoned much the same, just not sure about the age bit. I think your opinions are most credible.
  And, as has been pointed out here many times,  they were too self absorbed to have room  for children.  I do not see them as parental material at all. Even those pugs were more of  "accessories" than pets.
 All in all, they did [or at least Wallis did] have a "style" but not much in the way of substance.

[Eric_Lowe]

I don't think as far as Edward was concerned that he ever regretted in ditching the throne for Wallis. Their autumn years were very affectionate as they became each other's life. That is what when Edward died, Wallis suddenly felt so lost. The Queen Mother was in her most genuine as she told Wallis at the furneral " I know how you feel, I have been over it myself."

[Alixz]

As to the tubes tied, I think I read that in Greg's book, but I will have to look for it.  I put place reminders for a lot of things I wanted to post here, but that one was not one I thought I would need.

But if it were done, I believe it was done before she even met Ernest.

Menopause usually begins around age 45 to 50 and makes a woman miserable until it ends sometimes as much as 8 to 10 years later.  I don't remember Wallis ever mentioning or acting as if she were going through menopause.

[grandduchessella]

Martyn--so good to see you again! 

A number of prospective brides were trotted out for David--while there was a lack of non-Catholic royal brides (not that that stopped newspaper speculation)--many of Britain's eligible girls from the peerage were thought of. I don't know if even before WW1 George V & Queen Mary put much emphasis on a royal bride but certainly post-1918, it was a non-issue. It's just that Edward VIII wasn't attracted to any girl who was acceptable to his parents. I'm sure there's a bit of psychoanalysis to be done there. 

[Eric_Lowe]

I think Queen Mary had her eyes on the daughters of Prince Nicholas of Greece in mind for awhile. They were undoubtedly royal and chic with the kind of sophistication that David liked. She & Princess Nicholas (along with Infanta Beatrice of Orleans (born Princess of Edinburgh)) tried to bring them (Princess Olga & Princess Elisabeth of Greece) forward, but David wasn't interested. Later David did have an opportunity with Marina, but Freda Dudley-Ward (the current mistress) nipped it in the bud. Also David once wanted to marry an aristocratic lady and asked his parents for permission to marry, but was turned down. Queen Mary also tried with Lady Elizabeth Bowles-Lyon for David, but he wasn't interested either, so she went to Bertie instead. So I don't think one can blame Queen Mary for not trying to wed her eldest son...

[Robert_Hall]

GDElla,  "unresponsive" is putting it mildly, don't you think ?