King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson (Duke and Duchess of Windsor)

[Eric_Lowe]

I think Marina and the other aristocratic lady might have a chance, but circumstances ruled them out. So I was not sorry when David cut off Freda Dudley-Ward, she ruined the chance for Britain to have a suitable queen.

[Kalafrana]

Producing children when between 40-45 was not particularly unusual in the 1920s and 1930s (long before fertility treatment!). My grandmother married for the second time at 41 and produced two! Admittedly, she had already had children by her first marriage - perhaps a first pregnancy after 40 would be a bit unusual.

Ann

[feodorovna]

Dear Robert Hall, thankyou SO much for your kind words. I-reluctantly!-left this fascinating discussion to go on holiday 10 days ago. I was thrilled, on my return, to find it still very much live and well!! It's good to know that so many of you share my interest in this, IMO, not very likable, but strangely compelling couple.

[Kalafrana]

Interestingly, none of George V's sons was in any rush to get married. George VI married at 27, Henry at 35 and George at 32. The impression I have is that their parents pretty much left them to find suitable wives in their own time - and they all did.

Ann

[Alixz]

But David was 42 in 1936 when his father died.  Remember he was born when Nicholas and Alix were in England after their engagement in 1894 and they were part of his group of godparents.

Forty two is quite old for the heir to still be single.

I have always thought that is why Prince William and Kate finally tied the knot this year.  Both are 29 going on 30 and I think that the royal family is looking for heirs.

George V was so in charge of everything that his family did it still surprises me that me left the future of the family and the heirs in limbo for so long. 

I know that the war intervened but David was 20 when the war began and almost 25 when it was over.  It would have seemed time for him to settle down to the "calming influence" of a wife and family.

[Martyn]

Martyn--so good to see you again! 

It's just that Edward VIII wasn't attracted to any girl who was acceptable to his parents. I'm sure there's a bit of psychoanalysis to be done there. 

Thank you so much GDElla!

I think that you have raised an interesting point there.  His taste in women certainly ran contrary to that which George and May found either suitable or acceptable for a royal spouse!  His choice of Wallis opens up a whole range of opportunities for psychoanalysis.......

[Kalafrana]

Alixz

I agree. 42 is very old for an heir apparent to be single!

Realistically, most royal men of the late 19th - early 20th century generation married at age 25-30. Some a bit older, some a bit younger. The oldest I've found is Boris III of Bulgaria, who was 36 and already a king when he married in 1929. Alexander of Yugoslavia was 34, and, again, already king.

For Edward VIII, the war might have delayed things slightly, but it would have been quite possible for him to have married by the time he was 30 (assuming he found the right woman), just as George VI did (I think, but don't quote me, that he and Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon first met as adults in 1919 or 1920).

Ann

[CountessKate]

Realistically, most royal men of the late 19th - early 20th century generation married at age 25-30. Some a bit older, some a bit younger. The oldest I've found is Boris III of Bulgaria, who was 36 and already a king when he married in 1929. Alexander of Yugoslavia was 34, and, again, already king.

I wonder if the large number of boys in the family helped, to a certain extent, to take some of the matrimonial heat off the Prince of Wales?  With several 'spares' in the direct line, his parents would have been less able to muster up compelling dynastic arguments for an early marriage, and as time went on, his brothers married and started producing additional heirs so it wasn't as if the Windsors were in imminent danger of disappearing. 

George V was so in charge of everything that his family did it still surprises me that me left the future of the family and the heirs in limbo for so long. 

It wasn't in limbo from 1923, when Mary, Countess of Harewood had her first son, and when the Duke and Duchess of York had their first daughter in 1926, George V seemed gradually to come to look on the marriage of the Prince of Wales as a lost cause.  He wasn't Queen Victoria - he certainly didn't appear to take any interest in his sons' marriages other than expecting them to come up with suitable wives, and Queen Mary also seemed strangely tentative about locating appropriate girls for her sons compared to the previous generations of royal women. 

[LadyCathy]

As to the tubes tied, I think I read that in Greg's book, but I will have to look for it.  I put place reminders for a lot of things I wanted to post here, but that one was not one I thought I would need.

But if it were done, I believe it was done before she even met Ernest.

Menopause usually begins around age 45 to 50 and makes a woman miserable until it ends sometimes as much as 8 to 10 years later.  I don't remember Wallis ever mentioning or acting as if she were going through menopause.

Women who have their tubes tied and/or a hysterectomy still go through menopause.  It has nothing to do with the operation itself but with the body ceasing to manufacture estrogen.  Wallis would not have ever mentioned in public that she was menopausal, and I do not understand what you mean when you say you do not remember her acting as if she were going through menopause.  How are you able to tell who is or isn't?  As far as David Windsor, at one time when he was much younger he wanted to marry Lady Rosemary Ednam.  King George V rejected her as a future queen because he felt her mother had a "bad reputation."  I think the King lived to regret his decision considering who David fell in love with!

[Robert_Hall]

Wow, I think I have learned a LOT more about female reproduction cycles than I ever bargained for. I just meant "tubes tied"  colloquially, not that I have  knowledge of  whether  she had it done or not. I  am not even sure know what the term means.  I know men can have vasectomies,  but I think that is different. Intersting direction this thread has  gone in.
 Back to the Windsors,  They could easily have adopted, if so inclined, but I think they were child proof, one way or the other. Wallis herself might have been a big "social flirt" but I do not believe for a minute she ever had a relationship out side her marriage to to David.  Even the car salesman [?] was before the marriage was it not ?

[Alixz]

I have worked with many women who "acted" like the were going through menopause.  They turn bright red, they sweat (glow) and in general look very uncomfortable. They would turn up the air conditioning and turn down the heat at intervals all day long or turn up the heat and then turn down the air conditioning.  I myself went through the process and it took what seemed to be an age and I was very uncomfortable.

I know that many people would see my symptoms and ask me how I was feeling.  The extra heat that the body generates is enormous and can be felt by others who are near.

Night sweats are very common and while I would expect that Wallis wouldn't talk about that her staff would have known if she slept well or not.

I never said that having one's tube tied or having a hysterectomy would stop one from going through the physical effects of menopause.

But since Wallis was so very socially active and in public so much, I just thought that I had never seen her exhibiting any of the menopausal symptoms that I have seen on the women with whom I worked.

[LadyTudorRose]

I have worked with many women who "acted" like the were going through menopause.  They turn bright red, they sweat (glow) and in general look very uncomfortable. They would turn up the air conditioning and turn down the heat at intervals all day long or turn up the heat and then turn down the air conditioning.  I myself went through the process and it took what seemed to be an age and I was very uncomfortable.

I know that many people would see my symptoms and ask me how I was feeling.  The extra heat that the body generates is enormous and can be felt by others who are near.

Night sweats are very common and while I would expect that Wallis wouldn't talk about that her staff would have known if she slept well or not.

I never said that having one's tube tied or having a hysterectomy would stop one from going through the physical effects of menopause.

But since Wallis was so very socially active and in public so much, I just thought that I had never seen her exhibiting any of the menopausal symptoms that I have seen on the women with whom I worked.

I'm sure she did, but why would anyone document that? People didn't chat about that stuff back then. Not to mention it might've happened in the Bahamas when she was sweating and acting sick all the time anyway.

[Alixz]

It was just a thought that perhaps someone would have caught a picture of her in distress.

But perhaps you are right and it happened in the Bahamas.

[Eric_Lowe]

She wasn't even pregnant with Win Spencer when she was at her most fertile age, so it might be her own problem.

[Robert_Hall]

Good point, Jeniann.  I had not thought much about the Bahamas stay. They made frequent visits to NYC then, could have been a release from the heat of the Carib.?
 And Alixz, now that you mention it, I have worked women who went through it [menopause] without talking about it [maybe amongst themselves ?] And no one  really noticed "the change".  I just took it to mean all women go through it and it is just a fact of life. So it would not necessarily be a topic of discussion.  Admittedly, I know/knew very few women to have an insight.  Now, probably mistakenly, I just assume [again] that there are medications to ease the process.  No idea about then, of course.
 Wallis was always so cool and well presented, that any "pregnant dog" symptoms must have been behind VERY closed doors.
 I doubt David would have had a clue as to what might have been going on. He was rather dim.