Author Topic: Jasper Tudor  (Read 5220 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Jasper Tudor
« on: September 02, 2006, 02:13:38 PM »
Hey everyone, I was looking around on tudorhistory.org and wikipedia, and noticed some things about Jasper Tudor that I hadn't known before. Apparently, he had two illegitimate daughters, Helen and Joan. Helen was reputedly the mother of Stephen Gardiner, and Joan was the ancestress of Oliver Cromwell.  :o
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2006, 05:01:24 PM »
Yes, he supposedly had a "liason" with a Welsh lady called Myfanwy :o
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2006, 05:18:43 PM »
The barmaid from Little Britain??  ;D ;D

Anyone know how his relationship with Catherine Woodville was?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

ilyala

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 12:31:54 AM »
oh my god early tudors  ;D ;D ;D

i have to admit i don't know much about jasper but this topic really interests me.

what i wonder is, did catherine woodville have any children at all? cause if she did, the fact that she didn't with jasper speaks volumes, me thinks.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 01:16:47 AM »
I read somewhere that she possibly had a stillborn boy with Jasper. She had 4 children with her first husband and none with her third.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 07:37:56 AM »
Was her third marriage a scandal?

And was Jasper an adviser to Henry after his accession, or was he sort of 'pensioned off'?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 08:50:00 AM »
To our eyes, I am sure her first marriage was a scandal, what with her husband being 12 years old to her 24! But then her 20 year old brother married Katherine Neville who was 80. Methinks I smell money. ;D ;D
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 11:29:36 AM »
I believe Katherine Neville was described as a 'slip of a girl' at the time.  ;D ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

bell_the_cat

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2006, 12:37:53 PM »
 I think it's easy to underestimate the status of the Tudors in the 1450s. They were the half brothers of Henry VI. I think teenager Margaret Beaufort probably though she'd won the lottery when she married Edmund.

Just wanted to point out that Henry VII's claim depended more on his intimate connection to the family of Henry VI, than to the Beaufort inheritance!

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2006, 01:03:30 PM »
Yes, I completely agree with you Bell. I wonder what Marguerite d'Anjou thought of them . . .?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Yseult

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Re: Jasper Tudor
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 01:14:35 PM »
Lieven, I suppose that Margaret of Anjou tought that they were good enough to fight for her son Henry VI, but not good enough to start a royal´s dinasty  ;D At the end, Margaret was the proud daughter of a duke of Anjou that was also king of Naples, and a duchess of Lorraine in her own right. I don´t believe Margaret could understand how the widow of Henry V, a princess Valois, had children by a secret marriage with a welsh man as Owen Tudor.

But this is my point of view...