Could Catherine of Aragon have lied?

[Kimberly]

Arthur's final resting place has been pinpointed below the limestone floor of Worcester Cathedral. Last I heard, Dr. Julian Litten intended to have a look see using an endoscope without disturbing the remains. That was a couple of years ago and I have heard nothing since about this research.
I don't quite understand your post Zackattack (its a bit early for me). Surely if they were to dig up Arthur, the skeleton would be male

[ilyala]

The rumours of Henry's infidelity with the Stafford sister dates back to 1510! This is something we will never agree on, but I still think he wasn't that much better than most of his contemporaries... Francis I, for example, had a lower number of known or presumed mistresses than Henry. He had lots more, no doubt about it, but I think that his way of making Madame d'Étampes his "maîtresse en titre" has many points in common with Henry's passion for Anne Boleyn, for example. I think there's only one difference: Henry had no sons by Catherine; Francis had three sons left by his dead wife. So, not only had he 3 boys to succeed him, but he was also a widow. Anne Boleyn would have probably never become queen of England if Henry's situation had been that way; she would have probably become his own "maîtresse en titre".

By the way, I thought C.Howard had given in to Henry before the marriage... There was some pregnancy rumour in April 1540 or something like that, wasn't there...

i don't think henry would have married catherine if she had given in.

why? because the only woman that he slept with and married afterwards was anne boleyn and that was basically because she was pregnant and he desperatly wanted an heir. however, before he met jane seymour and while he was still married to anne, he had a very discreet affair (i read about it in the six wives). however, anne got in the way only when jane seymour appeared in the picture. why? because jane did not give in.

henry wanted a respectable wife not some easy girl. he married catherine howard because he (foolishly) thought she was that.

[ilyala]

Henry VII was definately austere (and a usurper to boot ) but he still managed to father a bastard.

 
i never heard about that!
any more information except the existence?

[lexi4]

In the eyes of some, Elizabeth was a bastard.

[ilyala]

In the eyes of some, Elizabeth was a bastard.

lol yeah but none of henry 7th's children could be considered so by anyone. not the ones i know of...
so who is the child i don't know of?

[Kimberly]

Henry VII was definately austere (and a usurper to boot ) but he still managed to father a bastard.

 
i never heard about that!
any more information except the existence?

Sir Roland de Velville (1474-1535??) Constable of Beaumaris Castle (Wales). His mother was supposedly a Breton woman but I remember reading somewhere many years ago that he had another mistress - Maud ? Butler.

[lexi4]

Henry VII was definately austere (and a usurper to boot ) but he still managed to father a bastard.

 
i never heard about that!
any more information except the existence?

Sir Roland de Velville (1474-1535??) Constable of Beaumaris Castle (Wales). His mother was supposedly a Breton woman but I remember reading somewhere many years ago that he had another mistress - Maud ? Butler.

Now that you mention it Kimberly, I recall that too. Now, if I can remember where I read it, I can post a source. :-)

[ilyala]

Henry VII was definately austere (and a usurper to boot ) but he still managed to father a bastard.

 
i never heard about that!
any more information except the existence?

Sir Roland de Velville (1474-1535??) Constable of Beaumaris Castle (Wales). His mother was supposedly a Breton woman but I remember reading somewhere many years ago that he had another mistress - Maud ? Butler.

i never heard of this. thank you, kimberly. i suppose henry 7th was a normal man after all 

[Kimberly]

<shudders>

[ilyala]

<shudders>

ahh, you like him, you know it

[Kimberly]

 

[Romanov_fan]

Well, that isn't the image of Henry, we have but I guess he wasn't that austere. Anyway, back to his son Henry VIII. I think he wanted a respectable wife, or at least a woman who seemed so. He didn't want to be embarassed and humiliated as he was with Catherine Howard. He thought she was different than she was, and had she given in, he most likely would not have married her. But he was very infatuated with her as well., so who knows? Anne Bolyen didn't have the best reputation when she married Henry. She was thought of, or called a whore by many. But he knew her well enough to know that she was no easy girl; she waited.

[ilyala]

Well, that isn't the image of Henry, we have but I guess he wasn't that austere. Anyway, back to his son Henry VIII. I think he wanted a respectable wife, or at least a woman who seemed so. He didn't want to be embarassed and humiliated as he was with Catherine Howard. He thought she was different than she was, and had she given in, he most likely would not have married her. But he was very infatuated with her as well., so who knows? Anne Bolyen didn't have the best reputation when she married Henry. She was thought of, or called a whore by many. But he knew her well enough to know that she was no easy girl; she waited.

the very important difference between catherine howard and anne boleyn was the time henry took to marry them. and the effort that was required. i mean, for anne boleyn henry broke relations with the pope. now even if after 6 years of waiting and conflicts the thought 'maybe i shouldn't marry her' crossed his mind, i think he would have still gone through with it. for the simple reason that there was so much fuss about it.

on the contrary - anne of cleves agreed to the divorce and there was no scandal. unless you count the death of thomas cromwell who wasn't very popular anyway. i don't think the wedding was planned long before it happened. henry could have backed out without much consequence.

[Romanov_fan]

Well, yes, he had committed himself to a great extent with Anne. Had he backed out of it he would have made himself look foolish, and he really had too much to lose not to continue with it. He needed an heir, and believed she could provide a healthy male heir. There was no reason to not to believe that. As it was, she produced a healthy female who wasn't exactly an heir. But he didn't know that. I suppose he already thought enough reputations were ruined, so why not marry Anne Bolyen?

[ilyala]

Well, yes, he had committed himself to a great extent with Anne. Had he backed out of it he would have made himself look foolish, and he really had too much to lose not to continue with it. He needed an heir, and believed she could provide a healthy male heir. There was no reason to not to believe that. As it was, she produced a healthy female who wasn't exactly an heir. But he didn't know that. I suppose he already thought enough reputations were ruined, so why not marry Anne Bolyen?

exactly. much of england's external and internal policy had been focused around henry marrying anne boleyn. after all that how can you say to the people: "you know, i got you all to break with the pope, i repudiated my beloved wife who was nothing but faithful to me, i have destroyed my relations with spain, i have condemned cardinal wolsey... but you know what? i changed my mind!"

no can do.