Author Topic: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture  (Read 124953 times)

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Offline TampaBay

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Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« on: September 10, 2006, 07:59:29 AM »
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Offline TampaBay

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 08:03:49 AM »


Not okay with me. Haven't you read my posts? I am totally against the equal primogeniture system.



I think you are living in the middle ages.  Therfore, what do you thinlkabout QEI and Catherine the Great of Russia?

TampaBay


Before you hurl insults, you should look up 'primogeniture' (which unlike Borbon Fan I support) and 'equal primogeniture', which means first child is heir regardless of gender. Something far too modern and wrong for me to be able to make myself support.


Did not mead to hurl an insult. 

I am a big supporter of  'equal primogeniture'. A great Monarch depends on the person not the sex of a person.  Sweeden has the right to do what it likes whith their succession laws.  I wish a Sweedish National would join in on this discussion. 

Now lets get on with the really important thing in life;  What do you think of CP Victoria's hairstyle and fashion sense?  I think she looks much better in a tiara than her little brother would .;D ;D ;D

TampaBay
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 08:08:08 AM by TampaBay »
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basilforever

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 08:24:13 AM »
Well I suppose really for us royalists or people interested in royalty, we each have to decide which form of succession law we support and approve of.

Some support the Salic Law where a monarch must be a man and the line of succession can not run through a female at all anywhere. I respect countries that had this system for many centuries, like Russia and Denmark. It is not the system I support today but I don't have a problem at all that it existed in the past.

Then there is primogeniture. Which is the system that Great Britain has and has had for centuries. This is one we are quite familiar with, where the males have preference, but in the absence of them a woman can rule as Queen and the throne passes to her descendents. Britain has never really had a problem with this, for instance Henry I was meant to be succeeded by his only surviving legitimate child Empress Matilda. Although her cousin Stephen kind of overthrew her, the line of succession after Stephen went to Matilda's oldest son. So it has been this way in Britain for nearly a thousand years. I support this system. Denmark and Spain also still has this system. So does Monaco and some others..

There there is fully equal primogeniture, which means eldest child regardless of gender inherits. I don't like it AT ALL!! It just isn't fair to the sons who should inherit and I do not think that I have a sexist view here. I am a young woman myself, but I can't stand this form of law because it is just too anti-traditonal and goes against thousands of years of history and human society, order, and practice. I honestly believe that countries with this EXTREMELY new system, do not have a long term stable future in their monarchies. Tampa Bay, we just have to agree to disagree.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2006, 08:48:16 AM »
Of course we agree to disagee.  If we both agreed on everything one of us would not be necessary. 

I will admit though that women make better crowned conssorts than men with the exception of Prince Albert who was one in a million.

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basilforever

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2006, 09:07:25 AM »
He certainly was one in a million, and I think he was very handsome too in his younger years :-*

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2006, 10:45:50 AM »
I prefer equal primogeniture, but as TampaBay rightfully says, we can agree to disagree.  ;)

For the record, I think Crown Princess Victoria is quite attractive (not a patch on her brother and sister, but that'd be hard!)
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Offline TampaBay

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2006, 10:53:16 AM »
My comment about hairstyle and tiara was just a little comic relief to clear the air with a chuckle.

I think Victoria will make an excellent Queen.  We all just need to get busy and find her the right husband/consort!   ;D ;D ;D


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Offline Taren

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2006, 11:19:01 AM »
There there is fully equal primogeniture, which means eldest child regardless of gender inherits. I don't like it AT ALL!! It just isn't fair to the sons who should inherit and I do not think that I have a sexist view here. I am a young woman myself, but I can't stand this form of law because it is just too anti-traditonal and goes against thousands of years of history and human society, order, and practice. I honestly believe that countries with this EXTREMELY new system, do not have a long term stable future in their monarchies. Tampa Bay, we just have to agree to disagree.

I, too, am a young woman and a traditionalist, but sometimes change is for the better. I understand where you are coming from, thinking that it goes against thousands of years, but do you think that things have always been like they are now? Of course not. In different times, in different countries, women weren't even allowed to reign at all -let alone if they had a brother they "usurped". But that, with the exception of Japan and the Middle East, has changed and England, Denmark, and the Netherlands all have fine queens that are very respected. In a few decades there will be queens sitting on the thrones of Belgium, Sweden, Norway, and who knows where else?

Furthermore, laws about who you can marry have changed as well. The Empress of Japan and her two daughters-in-law were commoners and that used to be a big no-no. Fifty years ago Mette Marit would have been relegated to the position of mistress and not wife of the Crown Prince of Norway. In England, for a long time, you had to marry royalty. But things changed and not only did we have the Queen Mother (despite what many here think of her  ;D) but the late Princess of Wales as well.

Power has changed as well. I believe someone said there are only two absolute monarchies in the world. A few hundred years ago, how many were there? Lots more. But times change and democracy tends to take over and more and more royals had to give up power or face revolution. Nicholas II didn't want to give up anything and look where that got him.

You see where I'm coming from? Sometimes things change. With royalty the change is usually slower than with the rest of us. There's nothing we can do about change. You either have to accept things or let them drive you crazy. The only thing I can think to do, if you don't approve of CP Victoria, maybe you should write her a letter or something.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 11:22:26 AM by Taren »

Rebecca

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2006, 01:42:33 PM »
I respect countries that had this system for many centuries, like Russia and Denmark. It is not the system I support today but I don't have a problem at all that it existed in the past.


Women can inherit the Danish throne only since 1953, so it is hardly a system which has been "for many centuries".

Rebecca

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2006, 01:56:53 PM »
Personally, I am a monarchist only if it is a constitutional monarchy. Having said that, I will also state that my opinion is that equal primogeniture is the most fair system.

I really do not understand people who say that, for instance, the fact that the Swedish throne will be inherited by a woman (crown princess Victoria) will weaken the Swedish monarchy or make it unstable.

Basilforever, you stated in another topic that you do not know much, if anything, about Swedish culture. Now, this is not really a cultural matter. But anyway, I live in Sweden, I know exactly how popular crown princess Victoria is and I can assure you that she is very popular, and that her popularity is growing, because she is doing a great job and she has become more and more secure and less and less nervous (maybe not the best word  :-\) in her role. She does take her duty very seriously and when the time comes for her to become queen, I am sure she will be a very good queen. She will not destabilize the Swedish monarchy.

Let me remind you that several monarchies that did not allow women to inherit the throne were deeply unstable and that several of them are not monarchies anylonger.

David_Pritchard

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2006, 01:58:19 PM »

I am a big supporter of  'equal primogeniture'. A great Monarch depends on the person not the sex of a person.  Sweeden has the right to do what it likes whith their succession laws.  I wish a Sweedish National would join in on this discussion. 

Now lets get on with the really important thing in life;  What do you think of CP Victoria's hairstyle and fashion sense?  I think she looks much better in a tiara than her little brother would .;D ;D ;D

TampaBay

I think that the reigning Sovereign should choose the best candidate from his or her extended family for the position of successor. Why should a country be at the mercy of chance be it male or female primogeniture? Look at how well Russia functioned in the 18th century when the toughest and smartest royal always rose to the top.

As for CP Victoria, I think she should be required to make an equal marriage. Her present boyfriend definitely is not prince consort material.

David

BorbonFan

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2006, 04:12:16 PM »
Personally, I am a monarchist only if it is a constitutional monarchy. Having said that, I will also state that my opinion is that equal primogeniture is the most fair system. (...) Let me remind you that several monarchies that did not allow women to inherit the throne were deeply unstable and that several of them are not monarchies anylonger.

Constitutional monarchy is essentially anti-christian, since it removes the power from the hands of the Defender of the Faith - the monarch -  and places it in the hands of an elite group of people who claim to speak for the masses (in a so-called democracy), masses whose ideas are formed exclusively through the press owned by these elites. This elite group of people have largely been the bourgeoisie, of which a good number have not been of Christian faith. The evolution of these countries since the moment of switching from absolute to constitutional monarchy speaks for the anti-christian agenda of these elites: the progressive increasing laxity of the morals standards (rampant pornography, gay marriage laws, bolder and bolder pedophiliacs) imposed in the people's psyche by the elite's press, resulting in:
- gradual to almost complete abandonement of the worshiping of Christ (abysmal church attending rates of less than 5%), traded for
- an the idolatry of pleasures (hedonism) and of self (glorification of intellect and science), which led to
- dropping birth rates and increasing abortion rates, further leading to
- depopulation and, therefore,
- a forced necessary increase in immigration from non-Christian countries (Asian, African) in order to have enough of a labor force to keep the factories running.

The end result of your beloved constitutional monarchy and democracy is nihilistic: a complete destruction of Christianity in all these countries, morally and biologically.

Secondly, the monarchies with salic law succession you claim were unstable were, indeed, so only because of anti-christian revolutionaries, the forefathers of the Bolshevism and Communism, who constatly tried (and ocassionally succeeded) to assasinate the tsars, who fomented the revolutions in France, Germany, and Austria, which toppled their monarchies. As I said on another thread, all Christians are forbidden by their faith from being revolutionary. It was never the good Christians who revolted against their monarchs, but rather the lapsed Christians (e.g. unrepenting homosexuals condemned by the Church turned atheists) and, especially, the anti-Christians (people of other faiths who hate Christianity, satanists such as Karl Marx, etc.).

God bless!
Borbon Fan
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 04:25:46 PM by BorbonFan »

Offline Taren

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2006, 04:24:43 PM »
**deleted because Jehan said it better than I ever could have**
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 04:31:54 PM by Taren »

Offline jehan

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2006, 04:28:09 PM »
Personally, I am a monarchist only if it is a constitutional monarchy. Having said that, I will also state that my opinion is that equal primogeniture is the most fair system. (...) Let me remind you that several monarchies that did not allow women to inherit the throne were deeply unstable and that several of them are not monarchies anylonger.

Constitutional monarchy is essentially anti-christian, since it removes the power from the hands of the Defender of the Faith - the monarch -  and places it in the hands of an elite group of people who claim to speak for the masses (in a so-called democracy), masses whose ideas are formed exclusively through the press owned by these elites. This elite group of people have largely been the bourgeoisie, of which a good number have not been of Christian faith.

Secondly, the monarchies with salic law succession you claim were unstable were, indeed, so only because of anti-christian revolutionaries, the forefathers of Bolshevism and Communism, who constatly tried (and ocassionally succeeded) to assasinate the tsars, who fomented the revolutions in France, Germany, and Austria, which toppled their monarchies. As I said on another thread, all Christians are forbidden by their faith from being revolutionary. It was never the good Christians who revolted against their monarchs, but rather the lapsed Christians (e.g. unrepenting homosexuals condemned by the Church turned atheists) and, especially, the anti-Christians (people of other faiths who hate Christianity, satanists such as Karl Marx, etc.).


God bless!
Borbon Fan

Oh please.  I'm happy for you that your faith means so much to you, and I don't want to denigrate your beliefs or wade into matters of faith here. It's not really in the area of this list,  but remember that what you are espousing is shared by very few people any more, and would not work in the modern realities of world politics.

But.  There is nothing in the bible about giving unquestioning support to (male) absolute monarchs. rather more to NOT putting your faith and trust in princes, but into the kingdom of heaven.  And remember that in his own time Jesus himself was espousing revolutionary ideas for his time.

The communist revolutionaries were mostly atheists, it is true, but there have been many who have opposed ruling monarchs in history who have not been- such as the English Puritans, the Russian Old believers, etc.  Many sought only to practice their own faith and have freedom of conscience, but I suppose to you this would be evil in itself, for one must not question anything ever?  The world has NEVER been a place of one monolithic system of belief, and it never will be.

And please give some documentation that Karl Marx was a satanist. ;)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 04:30:26 PM by jehan »
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BorbonFan

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Re: Salic Law, Primogeniture and Equal Primogeniture
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2006, 04:35:03 PM »
I don't really understand your logic of how constitutional monarchies are anti-christian.
I have detalied and reposted my initial message. Hope this helps explain my views better.

@ jehan: As I said, it was never the good Christians, but the lapsed ones (heretic Protestants) and, especially, the anti-Christians (atheists, peoples of other faiths, satanists) who were revolutionary. A good Christian is fobidden from being revolutionary (see my message on "The overthrow of the British Monarchy"). As to why Karl Marx was a satanist, see this: http://forerunner.com/predvestnik/X0013_Karl_Marx.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 04:48:42 PM by BorbonFan »