The House of Windsor and The Press

[Grace]

I'm sorry to sound critical but I just have to point out that the title "Princess Diana" is incorrect.  Diana's title was "Diana, Princess of Wales".  She would have to have been born a princess to have the title in front of her name. 

[Harumi]

I'm sorry to sound critical but I just have to point out that the title "Princess Diana" is incorrect.  Diana's title was "Diana, Princess of Wales".  She would have to have been born a princess to have the title in front of her name. 

I believe that while she was married to Charles, her title was The Princess of Wales and after her divorce it became Diana, Princess of Wales.

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, I know.  I use the popular way of refering to her, not really the correct way. I have read that, I guess I was getting lazy not wishing to type out her correct title. Her title did change after the divorce, she was no longer a HRH, I believe.

[Harumi]

Her title did change after the divorce, she was no longer a HRH, I believe.

HRH is a style not a title. You made me realise I made a mistake, since she was HRH The Princess of Wales before her divorce.
Both her style and her title changed afterwards.
However, I do exactly the same thing as you: I call her Princess Diana in casual conversation.

[ferngully]

i've come to the conclusion that if you go abroad, people call you english, regardless if you are english, irish, scottish or welsh. so it stands to reason that partly becuase of the british empire, people know about the british royal family more than others, so naturally they get more attention whatever they do. thats my skewed thought for the day
selina                                xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[CHRISinUSA]

Grace, I also have a pet peeve about the incorrect use of titles and styles    Such things seem to baffle some people, but it isn't that complicated when you think of it.  It's not much different than the traditional styles and titles used by commoners (until this past century's informality crushed the common usage, of course).  The nuances made it easy to tell who a person was.

Miss Smith, denotes the eldest unmarried daughter of the Smith family
Miss Mary Smith, denotes a younger unmarried daughter (adding her first name)
Mrs. John Smith, denotes the wife of John Smith
Mrs. Mary Smith, denotes the widow (or ex wife) of John Smith

And in royal styles...

HRH Princess Diana, denotes the daughter of a monarch or a monarch's son
HRH Diana, Princess of Wales, denotes the widow of the heir to the throne
HRH The Dowager Princess of Wales (alternate style for a widow)
Diana, Princess of Wales, denotes the ex-wife of the heir to the throne

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, I know I should use titles correctly. I admit that in America today no one seems to know much about these things, but we are dealing with an era and people who had titles and knew ranks, just as it is in countries that have royalty today, and nobility. I suppose I take too casual of an approach to the whole thing, considering I know what her correct title would have been.

[CHRISinUSA]

Oh, Angel, I certainly wasn't criticizing you or anyone in particular.  I guess I was just musing over the overall decline in civility and manners of today - of which the proper use of titles and forms of address is part.

[Prince_Lieven]

HRH Diana, Princess of Wales, denotes the widow of the heir to the throne

I didn't know that was a widow style, I thought it was just 'HRH the Dowager Princess of Wales' or 'the Princess Dowager of Wales'.

Another common mistake is referring to her as 'Princess Diana of Wales' - that would imply that she was the Prince of Wales's daughter!

With all the different styles, it's probably easier just to call her Lady Di - shorter than typing 'Diana, Princess of Wales'. 

[CHRISinUSA]

Traditionally, and I believe still officially, the form is "Dowager" whatever.  But since that term congures up images of grey-haired old ladies with canes and back humps, many widows from the last century began adopting the <ChristianName>, <Title> of <Location> approach as an alternative.  For example, after the death of the late Earl Spenceris his wife became Raine, Countess Spencer.

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, I know, and you have a relevant point when you talk about the correct use of titles. I was just pondering it too, because that world can seem so remote in modern day America, and it just seems like something you take lightly, while historical royals never took it lightly at all. Diana, Princess of Wales, might have taken it more lightly than some historical royals , but the HRH style thing was quite controversial in her divorce, it does matter. I think it is interesting to discuss, and know nobody was being rude or anything, because that's happened to me before..

[grandduchessella]

Oh, Angel, I certainly wasn't criticizing you or anyone in particular.  I guess I was just musing over the overall decline in civility and manners of today - of which the proper use of titles and forms of address is part.

This is true. It's crept into the US as well with newscasters and analysts referring to "Mr Bush" or "Mr Clinton" rather than by President Bush or President Clinton. Presidents, as well as Ambassadors and cabinet Secretaries, amongst others, are entitled to the usage of the title even when out of office. It may seem a trivial thing but it's a pet peeve of mine as I just think it diminishes the office which should always be above whoever its occupant is or was.

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, that is a good example, and I more than agree with the point made. It is an interesting issue to discuss, for sure. I think in general, society gets more casual about things like that, but it seems society gets more casual about most things, as wel, these days. It's not just specific, it's more in general.

[ChristineM]

In politically-correct Britain the reformation of titles is going right to the bottom of the ranks.   Last week I read that 'Mrs' and 'Miss' are to be dropped, in favour of 'Ms', as in 'Ms Cherie Boorth' - wife of the British prime minister.   Although she has not yet insisted she be referred to as 'Ms Blair'.

The politically-correct brigade says this is to make it indistinguishable whether a woman is married are not.   

Don't you think these people have very little to think about?

tsaria

[CHRISinUSA]

I'm probably off-topic - the US Constitution specifically prohibits the bestowal of noble titles, in part as a means to prevent a society of classes.  Despie this, we now readily embrace styles of honor which go along with them.  A recent check of the White House website guest list of the dinner in honor of the PoW and DoC showed a few surprises.  Frankly, I can't see the pattern.  Below are a few guests - some I'm not sure why they are "Hon" and some I'm not sure why not...

The Honorable Katharine Armstrong  (no title included, not sure why she's Hon)
The Honorable Nancy G. Brinker, Founding Chairman, The Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation (ditto)
The Honorable George Herbert Walker Bush Okay, former president.
Mrs. Barbara Bush (spouse doesn't get anything?)
The Honorable Andrew H. Card, Jr., Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff (political flunkies too?)
The Honorable Richard Cheney, Vice President of the United States (okay, serving VP, got it)
The Honorable Lynne V. Cheney (So the Veep's wife is Hon but Barbara Bush isn't?  Hmm)
The Honorable Donald B. Ensenat, Chief of Protocol, United States  (Serving flunkie)
The Honorable Donald L. Evans, Chief Executive Office, Financial Services Forum (  A major doner?)
The Honorable William S. Farish, Former American Ambassador to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland  (I guess former British Ambassadors are Hon?)
The Honorable Bill Frist, United States Senator (R/Tennessee) (serving senator - fine)
The Honorable Stephen J. Hadley, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (flunkie)
Mrs. Ann Hadley, Assistant U.S. Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice (not sure if its because she's a US Attorney or a member of the Justice Department)
The Honorable Jane Harman, United States Representative (D/California) (Fine, serving rep)
The Honorable J. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House (R/Illinois) (fine)
Lieutenant General Russel L. Honore, USA, Commanding General, First U.S. Army (No style for the military, hmm)
The Honorable Clay Johnson III, Deputy Director for Management, Office of Management and Budget (flunkie)
The Honorable James C. Langdon, Jr., Attorney, Akin Gump Strauss Hauer and Feld LLP (A basic attorney?  Why?)
The Honorable Ronald S. Lauder, Chairman, Central European Media Enterprises, Chairman, Clinique Laboratories Doner?
The Honorable Joseph I. Lieberman, United States Senator (D/Connecticut) (Serving Senator, fine)
His Excellency Sir David Manning, KCMG, Ambassador of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the United States (And serving ambassadors are Excellency)
Lady Catherine M. Manning, Spouse of the British Ambassador to the United States (Their wives get something!!)
The Honorable Anita McBride, Deputy Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady, Office of Mrs. Bush (Even Mrs. Bush's flunkies get it)
The Honorable Timothy J. McBride, Senior Vice President of Government Relations, Freddie Mac  ?
Mrs. Nancy Reagan  (Again, nothing)
The Honorable Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State (fine)
Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., The Chief Justice of the United States (So an attorney gets it, but the Chief Justice no?)
The Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense (The devil even gets it)
The Honorable Robert Tuttle, American Ambassador to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Our ambassadors are just Hon, not Excellency)
The Honorable Anthony A. Williams, Mayor of the District of Columbia (And mayors get it)

What's the pattern???