Author Topic: Stress under captivity/Awareness of her family's fate  (Read 53187 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #165 on: August 06, 2007, 08:34:36 PM »
According to Charlotte Zeepvat in Romanov Autumn, Vyrubova is the only source for the story of Derevenko's betrayal. Here's an excerpt from pages 239-40:

"Anna Virubova claimed to have seen Derevenko bullying Alexei, shouting orders at a boy too bemused to fight back. If this was true it would have been a shattering experience, but its truth is not so clear cut as it may seem. According to Anna, it happened on 20 March, two days before her own arrest. After a display like this the sailor would surely have left or been made to go, but he was still at the palace months later. Shortly before the move to Tobolsk in August he submitted an invoice for new clothes and shoes for Alexei to Colonel Kobilinsky, the commandant of the palace garrison. He was asking a huge amount so payment was withheld: when the sailer complained to the Tsaritsa and she intervened on his behalf, Kobilinsky showed her the invoice. She took the colonel's part. Derevenko was refused permission to accompany the family to Tobolsk, but months after their departure he was still pleading to be allowed to join them. "

Olishka~ Pincess

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #166 on: August 06, 2007, 08:45:00 PM »
The sailor Derevenko betrayed the imperial family during the revolution.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #167 on: August 06, 2007, 08:47:58 PM »
The sailor Derevenko betrayed the imperial family during the revolution.

Forgive me for getting testy, but the whole point of the entire paragraph I just took the time to look up and type out is that Derevenko might NOT have actually betrayed the imperial family at all!  :-X

mr_harrison75

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #168 on: August 06, 2007, 08:49:43 PM »
If he betrayed them, why did he was still in the palace, months later? And what about the Empress taking his part until she saw the invoice?

And maybe we should discuss it somewhere else, this topic is about Olga N. after all...  ;)

mr_harrison75

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #169 on: August 06, 2007, 08:56:41 PM »
I bumped up a similar topic in the Alexei thread...

JBenjamin82

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #170 on: August 06, 2007, 10:29:34 PM »
Well, I guess I'll jump into this discussion at last, though it's probably too late for me to add much that hasn't been written a few times already.  I've been following this thread for some time, and I agree with a lot of what Sarushka and Janet W. have written.  I don't think there's strong evidence to suggest that Olga knew she was going to die.  Of course, it's possible that she suspected that things would not end well for her, but all we can do is guess.

The other night, I was looking through my copy of The Last Diary of Tsaritsa Alexandra.  The footnotes under Alix's 24 January/6 February, 25 January/7 February, and 26 January/8 February entries include excerpts from her correspondence with Boris Solovyov, where she wrote asking for his honest opinion regarding her family's situation.  Apparently, Solovyov responded, noting that the situation was "very serious and could become critical."  He also noted that it would take the help of devoted friends and/or a miracle for things to turn out all right.  In turn, Alix wrote that he "confirmed [her] fears."    Does anyone know anything else about their correspondence?  If it's authentic, it could suggest that Alix understood that the situation could take a turn for the worse; however, I'm not convinced that she suspected death as a strong possibility.  At any rate, perhaps Alix shared her fears with Olga, since they reportedly spent increasing amounts of time together in captivity. The thing is, we can't be sure that Alix would share the burden of fear with her allegedly depressed daughter. Perhaps Olga, being perceptive and sensitive, simply sensed her mother's fears.  Without concrete evidence, who knows?  I certainly don't.  ;)

On the other hand, there's another interesting footnote under Alix's 14/27 June diary entry.  In response to the third "officer letter," the family wrote that they did not want to escape, and that a rescue should not be attempted without a "case of real and imminent danger."  To me, that seems to suggest that the family didn't consider themselves in "real and imminent danger" as of June 27th.  Furthermore, according to The Fate of the Romanovs, the women who cleaned the floors at the Ipatiev house on July 15th reported that the girls appeared to be in good spirits.  If they knew or believed that their lives were in serious danger, I can't help but doubt that they'd be happy and joking around. 

At the end of the day, I think that if Olga knew the political climate/situation, she may have worried about the possibility of death to some extent.  But as Janet so wisely wrote, people generally push unpleasant thoughts of death out of their minds and attempt to hope for happier times.  If I were in Olga's position, I think I would feel uneasy at the back of my mind, but I also think that denial and hope would win out against any thoughts of possible death.   

helenazar

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Re: Olga knew what was going to happen
« Reply #171 on: August 07, 2007, 07:55:40 AM »
According to Charlotte Zeepvat in Romanov Autumn, Vyrubova is the only source for the story of Derevenko's betrayal. Here's an excerpt from pages 239-40:

"Anna Virubova claimed to have seen Derevenko bullying Alexei, shouting orders at a boy too bemused to fight back. If this was true it would have been a shattering experience, but its truth is not so clear cut as it may seem. According to Anna, it happened on 20 March, two days before her own arrest. After a display like this the sailor would surely have left or been made to go, but he was still at the palace months later. Shortly before the move to Tobolsk in August he submitted an invoice for new clothes and shoes for Alexei to Colonel Kobilinsky, the commandant of the palace garrison. He was asking a huge amount so payment was withheld: when the sailer complained to the Tsaritsa and she intervened on his behalf, Kobilinsky showed her the invoice. She took the colonel's part. Derevenko was refused permission to accompany the family to Tobolsk, but months after their departure he was still pleading to be allowed to join them. "

Thanks, Sarushka. Well, that answers our question. I guess neither Alexandra nor Nicholas, nor anyone else wrote or mentioned this incident, so basically it's just AV's word that was repeated later by others. There doesn't seem to be any obvious motive for her to make this up, but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't. AV doesn't really strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, so she may have been confused, if not deliberately making it up... I would take this incident with a grain of salt... It's not as serious of an accusation as the Bux one, but still a pretty nasty one if it's not true. In light of the fact that Derevenko was pleading to accompany the family to Siberia later, it would seem kind of strange if he did indeed behave that way shortly prior to that...