The House of Windsor and The Press

[TampaBay]

Is it possible that sharing the English language has something to do with it? N.

English History is study in the USA in bothhigh school and university.

TampaBay

[ChristineM]

Call me old-fashioned but I would have thought unquantifiable qualities such honesty and trust really ought to be part of the equation.    A married man being promiscuous or having a mistress, strikes me as someone, fundamentally dishonest and not to be trusted.   If his own wife can't trust him - how on earth can a nation trust a cheat and a liar?   Sadly this is evidence of the corrupting influence of power.

The comparison with Edward VII simply doesn't work - he was a hereditory, constitutional monarch and therefore not anwerable to an electorate.   However, in the UK we do have an elected prime minister.   It wasn't until well after he lost office that John Major was revealed (by his ex-lover) to have been unfaithful to his wife.   Everyone was shocked, including, I suspect, his wife.

tsaria

[ilyala]

that's another point of mine. we don't actually know how they are. maybe they are the biggest liars and never been caught. maybe they cheat on their wives constantly but they've never been caught. i for one didn't know that statistic with harry truman being the only faithful american president. i'm sure most people didn't. and i'm sure most people assume, like me, that because they haven't heard anything of the sort it didn't happen.

basically, if you are considerring personal life when you vote for a president/prime minister or when you declare yourself for/against a certain monarch, you might not vote for the best man rather than for the best actor.and as far as politics go, acting equals lying. so you're voting for one big fraud anyway.

[ChristineM]

I'm reaching the conclusion that in our, so-called, democracies virtually all our elected representatives are phonies.   They may start off with the best of intentions, then its downhill all the way.   

When politics became a profession rather than a vocation, integrity flew out the window.

This is why, I believe, in the UK we have been so fortunate, with the Windsors.

tsaria

[grandduchessella]

If they won't obey their marriage vows, how can they be trusted to obey any vows or oaths they take upon entering their leadership role?

This was almost an exact quote of Harry Truman's so you're in good company in your opinion. 

I remember hearing something several years ago about how Truman was the only president (that we know of) to have never cheated on his wife. That, coupled with what I already knew about him, made me respect him more than I already did.

One website on US Presidents said that, actually, most have been faithful to their wives--only 5 Presidents seem to have been known to definitely be unfaithful--Harding, FDR, JFK, Lyndon Johnson and Clinton. Some examples of more modern Presidents:

Teddy Roosevelt (faithful to both wives, being widowed and remarried before becoming President)
Ronald Reagan (at least to Nancy, I'm not sure about his whole relationship with first wife Jane Wyman)
Gerald Ford
Richard Nixon (I think, not absolutely positive)
George Bush Sr (a whisper about one lady, Jennifer Fitzgerald, angrily denied by all, no solid evidence)
George Bush Jr

Some of our most popular Presidents have been unfaithful, though it wasn't widely known during their Presidency--Dwight Eisenhower (a relationship during WW2), JFK, FDR, Bill Clinton. Of course, on our most disastrous (and corrupt) Presidents, Harding, was a big philanderer.

It used to be considered (if known and especially if the press didn't like the candidate) a deal-breaker--witness Gary Hart. Post-Clinton, I don't think it's as important. Three of the top candidates for the Republican nomination--McCain (first wife after his release from being a POW), Giuliani and Newt Gingrich (blech) have all admitted to affairs. Don't know about the Democrats since all the media attention focuses on Hilary Clinton.

[CHRISinUSA]

basically, if you are considerring personal life when you vote for a president/prime minister or when you declare yourself for/against a certain monarch, you might not vote for the best man rather than for the best actor.and as far as politics go, acting equals lying. so you're voting for one big fraud anyway.

I believe we are overlooking the obvious best choice.   Vote for the candidate who actually DOES possess solid character.  Use prior experiences to try to tell the difference.  Yes, we may be fooled by a few of them along the way, but with age one does get better recognizing sleaze (certain areas of the US exempted!).

[TampaBay]

(certain areas of the US exempted!).

Florida is exempted because all we pretty much have down here is sleaze.  The only difference between degrees of sleaze and one sleaze bag versus another sleazebag is how much money one has in their bank account.

No one in Florida really cares about any of this.  Tabloid gossip picked up by the main stream press during election season is worn like a badge of honor unless it involves underage children.

TampaBay

[Taren]

If they won't obey their marriage vows, how can they be trusted to obey any vows or oaths they take upon entering their leadership role?

This was almost an exact quote of Harry Truman's so you're in good company in your opinion. 

I remember hearing something several years ago about how Truman was the only president (that we know of) to have never cheated on his wife. That, coupled with what I already knew about him, made me respect him more than I already did.

One website on US Presidents said that, actually, most have been faithful to their wives--only 5 Presidents seem to have been known to definitely be unfaithful--Harding, FDR, JFK, Lyndon Johnson and Clinton. Some examples of more modern Presidents:

Teddy Roosevelt (faithful to both wives, being widowed and remarried before becoming President)
Ronald Reagan (at least to Nancy, I'm not sure about his whole relationship with first wife Jane Wyman)
Gerald Ford
Richard Nixon (I think, not absolutely positive)
George Bush Sr (a whisper about one lady, Jennifer Fitzgerald, angrily denied by all, no solid evidence)
George Bush Jr

Some of our most popular Presidents have been unfaithful, though it wasn't widely known during their Presidency--Dwight Eisenhower (a relationship during WW2), JFK, FDR, Bill Clinton. Of course, on our most disastrous (and corrupt) Presidents, Harding, was a big philanderer.

It used to be considered (if known and especially if the press didn't like the candidate) a deal-breaker--witness Gary Hart. Post-Clinton, I don't think it's as important. Three of the top candidates for the Republican nomination--McCain (first wife after his release from being a POW), Giuliani and Newt Gingrich (blech) have all admitted to affairs. Don't know about the Democrats since all the media attention focuses on Hilary Clinton.

I have no idea what my source was -it might have been some program about the history of the presidency. It would be nice, though, to know that most presidents were faithful. As far as I know, Hillary Clinton has been faithful and I've heard nothing but good things from Barack Obama -another leading contender. I don't know if anyone but republicans have officially announced they're running yet. Clinton and Obama are just rumors and wishful thinking. McCain and Giuliani are both situations where their private lives have been not exemplarary, but their public/professional lives have for the most part. If those four, in some combination, are the choice for the presidency in 2008, for me it would be a tough decision. I respect and admire them all and if you look at their views on issues, they're virtually identical. Gingrich can just.....go away.

I believe that the Prince of Wales, from what I've read, has done quite a good job as Prince of Wales. With the creation of the Prince's trust and all the public appearances, trips, etc. that he has undertaken. Even though he was born into it, it's his job and he can't really just lay around all day. However, because everyone loves a scandal (and because most liked Diana more) they have chosen to focus on his private life that hasn't always been so great. People love a negative story more and I think that helps with why the Windsors are more known. If the other royals have such scandals going on, they're just better at hiding them.

[grandduchessella]

The scandals are there. The other message boards have been discussing recent revelations (even if the actions aren't recent) of possible affairs and/or illegitimate children of King Albert II of Belgium and King Harold of Norway. Also the recent arrest (also discussed here) of Vittorio Emmanuel of Italy and a fairly recent book (published posthumously but with which Prince Bernhard helped with apparently) which says that Prince Bernard, father of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands had 2 illegitimate children. There are other unsavory rumors that show up regarding the various royal houses but which don't bear repeating here. They just don't get the worldwide press, though the European press apparently likes to cover them.

[ilyala]

I'm reaching the conclusion that in our, so-called, democracies virtually all our elected representatives are phonies.   They may start off with the best of intentions, then its downhill all the way.   

When politics became a profession rather than a vocation, integrity flew out the window.

This is why, I believe, in the UK we have been so fortunate, with the Windsors.

tsaria

amen and exactly. this is one of the reasons i support monarchy. power corrupts - but it corrupts much less when you're born with it because you consider it normal. but when you've grown and become from nothing a very important person, very few people manage to stay clean.

i am looking at my country and i am disgusted. i have to say i don't know more than two politicians here that i have a relatively good opinion of and, considering the others, i am highly suspicious of them too. at our last elections i didn't vote because i didn't think any candidate was worth my vote. and i have a very louzy opinion on this particular job (that of a politician).

and it's not just my country (just that i'm more aware of what's happening here rather than what's happening outside). i can't think of one single politician (foreign or otherwise) that i can point at and say 'i am absolutely sure that this guy is one of the good guys'. personally, when i judge one, i judge him by his record as a politician. i think there are so few actually good politicians (and i don't mean talented, rather than doing their job right), that if i actually wanted them to have a clean personal life i'd really be left with no-one on my 'good' list.

[TampaBay]

I feel tha pohotographers, TV cameras, broadsheet newspapers, tabloids  and paparazzi are part of the job of being Roayl or marrying a Royal.

I started to get off topic on the Kate Middleton thread discussing how various memebers and ex-members of the House of Windsor handle the press.

Therefore, I have decided to start a new thread.   

[TampaBay]

If one's goal in life is to be on TV and have your picture in printed in the press, I think Sarah, Duchess of York, THE ex-Princess Andrew does a fairly good job.

TampaBay

[grandduchessella]

There was a thread on the royal family and the press so I merged the 2.

[TampaBay]

GD Ella,

Thanks!

TampaBay