Author Topic: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...  (Read 36471 times)

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Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2015, 02:03:33 PM »
the river Barnitz (bara (swamp > poodle in modern Serbian) + nica = swampy place)
Lol, should be "puddle", not "poodle".

Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #106 on: January 05, 2017, 09:08:54 AM »
One of the strangest aristocractic female names ever:
Lady Feodorowna Cecilia Wellesley (1838 - 1920).
In Russian ears, a girl called Feodorovna as a first name sounds like a girl named Johnson in Anglophone ears, doesn't it?
She was the daughter of the British diplomat Henry Wellesley, 1st Earl Cowley, who was British ambassador to France 1852–1867, i.e. during a most anti-Russian period (the Crimean War). But I don't know where he was posted when she was born i 1838. In Russia, with Empress Alexandra Feodorovna as godmother?

The empress condescending to be godmother to a grandniece of the Duke of Wellington is perhaps not so unlikely. Lady Feodorowna married Francis Bertie, 1st Viscount Bertie of Thame, another wartime British ambassador to allied France (1905 - 1918). They had one son with a similar odd name: Vere (ancient aristocratic surname) Bertie, which sounds like it should have been reversed: Bertie Vere!

Even though Feodora was the name of a few 19th-century German princesses, the names Feodora (Theodora) and Feodosia (Theodosia) don't seem to be in use in Russian anymore, but are archaïc or monastic.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Ceridwen

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #107 on: February 07, 2017, 01:47:01 PM »
I think names do matter.

One of my pet peeves about name is trying to be very creative and original with the spelling.  Its one thing when there are two or three recognized spellings of a name (ex:Stephen/Steven  Catherine/Katherine/Kathryn  Rachel/Rachael) but spellings like Bryttanai, Hayleah, Erynne, and Kathrynne just bother me. A child with a name like this always has to correct the spelling and hear people comment on it.

I wouldn't give my a child a diminutive name like Susie, Katie, or Lizzie. I love the name Katie but were I to have a daughter I would name her Katherine and call her Katie.  That way if when she became an adult she could go with the full name rather than the diminutive. 

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #108 on: February 07, 2017, 04:02:40 PM »
I agree with every word you say!

I would add that there are some names which sound reasonable on a child but silly on an adult, and struggle with Russian diminutives, some of which, especially for men, sound dreadfully babyish to my ear.

Ann

Offline TimM

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #109 on: February 07, 2017, 05:07:06 PM »
Quote
I wouldn't give my a child a diminutive name like Susie, Katie, or Lizzie. I love the name Katie but were I to have a daughter I would name her Katherine and call her Katie.  That way if when she became an adult she could go with the full name rather than the diminutive. 

There was a server at a restaurant that I frequent named Jenny.  Not Jennifer, just Jenny. 

It happens.
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Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #110 on: February 14, 2017, 02:36:08 PM »
There was a server at a restaurant that I frequent named Jenny.  Not Jennifer, just Jenny. 

In my part of the world, Scandinavia, Jennifer (either with original English pronunciation or adapted to Yennifer), like so many Anglo-Saxon names imported within living memory (post-WW2) has certain trashy connotations. (I.e. only used by people who primarily consume Hollywood movies, soaps etc.) Whereas Jenny (pronounced only Yenny), which must have been imported in the 19th century (along with Fanny, Henny, Harriet, Maud, Olga, Dagmar, Alva, Alma, etc.) is totally comme-il-faut (even a little bourgeois-bohemian) with nostalgic overtones of Edwardian / Oscarian great-grandmothers, the novel "Jenny" by Nobel laureate Sigrid Undset and Jenny Lind.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 03:03:40 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2017, 03:37:04 PM »
One of my pet peeves about name is trying to be very creative and original with the spelling.

Also known as ornamental or Baroque spelling: Love of voluminous pomposity, bizarre contrasts, ornamentations and horror vacui. Add to that a Romantic fascination for the exotic and nostalgia for bygone ages.

Quote
spellings like Bryttanai, Hayleah, Erynne, and Kathrynne just bother me.

Lol, Bryttanai, that's almost going etymological, from the Ancient Greek sources speaking of πρεταννικαὶ νῆσοι, pretannikai nesoi, Britannic isles. I wonder if there are any Prettneys running around, because p is much prettier than beastly b and besides it's both Greek and Welsh (Ynys Prydain - could be become a hit name!)
Hayleah is interesting, as it's the more correct etymological form of the original place name (meaning "hay field"), later surname Hayley.

The medievalesques who love to substitute y for i (Kathryn ye Qwyn of Womyn), are they perhaps really ypsilonistic devotees of Pythagoras worshipping the mysteries of the two-pathed Samian letter? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsilon#Symbolism :-)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 03:42:00 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2017, 03:22:04 PM »
Ebenbürtigkeit - does it sound as fearfully Teutonic and draconian in Russian: равнородство (ravna-ródstva)?
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #113 on: March 03, 2018, 07:04:11 AM »
The word the Danes use in their epitaphs of him [the late Prince Henrik of Denmark] is sjov*, as in en sjov mand, a fun / funny man.
* Pronounced [ɕɒwˀ], with a Russian-style shcha (щ - voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative), then a typically Danish and English semi-diphtongized vowel and a glottal stop (Danish stød, also typical of Cockney, Estuary and Australian English) at the end.

The same sound [[ɕ] is the first one in the name of Xí Jìnpíng [ɕǐ tɕîn.pʰǐŋ], the president of China who is about to make himself dictator for life and virtual emperor. Strange then, that his name is rendered Си Цзиньпин in Russian instead of Щи Цзиньпин. Is it because it's disrespectful to call the Chinese president щи, shchi, cabbage soup?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 07:17:24 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #114 on: June 27, 2018, 05:06:04 PM »
Nice that, even 400 years after his death, Shakespeare is still a big influence (the name of this thread). 

I wonder how many modern writers will be remembered in the year 2418, 400 years from now.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2019, 12:13:18 PM »
So, Greece has finally agreed to a compromize with Macedonia in the Macedonian naming dispute. Macedonia, which previously was forced to call itself FYROM (Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia) will now be allowed to call itself Northern Macedonia, provided they change all signs, money etc. at great cost and stop referring to Thessaloniki as Solun. I think it's so small-minded and ridiculous on Greece's part that we should refer to the Greek Republic as FOEMPYVS - the Former Ottoman Eyalet of Morea, Pashalik of Yanina and Vilayet of Salonica.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 12:18:29 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2019, 12:30:38 PM »
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Offline Превед

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2019, 01:49:00 PM »
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!

Yes. And a way for Greeks, both from the parties in power and the opposition, to make a political show of national pride in a world where Greece has very little control of the circumstances it finds itself in. What I find interesting is the context where the ancient name of Macedonian first was applied to a diverging Bulgarian dialect 200-150 years ago. Several of the Slavicists and philologists engaged in this had links to Russia. The Greeks didn't take too much notice of this in the 19th century, as the area today known as Greek (Southern or Lower) Macedonia didn't become part of the Kingdom of Greece untill 1913. But the way Orthodox South Slavs speaking rather diverging Bulgarian dialects assumed the name of the famous ancient Macedonians parallells how a mixture of Greek-speaking Rhomioi (i.e. Romans, i.e. Byzantine Greeks), Albanian-speaking Arvanites, recent Slavic-speakers and Romance-speaking Vlach Orthodox further south came to define themselves as Greeks / Hellenes and ethnic successors to the Ancient Greeks at the same time.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 01:55:50 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: What's in a name? That which we call a rose would smell as sweet...
« Reply #118 on: January 28, 2019, 06:32:12 PM »
What a mish-mash.
Cats: You just gotta love them!