Author Topic: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar  (Read 8470 times)

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AlexP@asia.com

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Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« on: June 22, 2006, 11:00:39 AM »
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.22

Dear All:

I am aware, as probably Penny, Greg, Belochka, Tania and Rob M. may be aware, that Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922) received a very, very detailed report of the murders of the Imperial Family even before Sokolov had completed his investigation.  A copy of this Report was made available to the Italian Royal Family among others.

1.  Have any of you ever seen or read this Report?

2.  On what sources the Report draw for its version of events?

3.  How was the Holy See so quickly informed of the horrific series of events of July 17/18, 1918 given the chaos that had overtaken Russia?

4.  Are any of you aware of what I believe to be the fact that the British Royal Family was first made aware of  the murders  through or by the Catholic Church?

5.  But above all, I would like to hear the comments from soneone who had read this Report.  

All of the best from GuangZhou,


Alex P.


Tania

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 11:33:55 AM »
Dear Alex P,

I would like it if this report could be shared on this thread's website. I think it is of infinite importance that all read this report. Does anyone have a copy ?

I think this would make excellent discussion.

God Bless !

Tatiana+


Quote
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.22

Dear All:

I am aware, as probably Penny, Greg, Belochka, Tania and Rob M. may be aware, that Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922) received a very, very detailed report of the murders of the Imperial Family even before Sokolov had completed his investigation.  A copy of this Report was made available to the Italian Royal Family among others.

1.  Have any of you ever seen or read this Report?

2.  On what sources the Report draw for its version of events?

3.  How was the Holy See so quickly informed of the horrific series of events of July 17/18, 1918 given the chaos that had overtaken Russia?

4.  Are any of you aware of what I believe to be the fact that the British Royal Family was first made aware of  the murders  through or by the Catholic Church?

5.  But above all, I would like to hear the comments from soneone who had read this Report.  

All of the best from GuangZhou,


Alex P.


David_Pritchard

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 09:55:39 PM »
This is a very interesting topic and one which is probably unfamiliar to most of the readers.  Because it existed as sovereign state and as a church, the Holy See has many characteristics of a country even though at the time, 1914, it was simply a part of Rome since territory was seized by the House of Savoy in 1870.

Pope Benedict XV would have had a great interest in the fate of the Russian Emperor as it would have had an effect on the Catholics of the Roman Rite living in Poland, Lithuania and Latvia; on the Catholics of the Ukrainian Rite living in Belarussia and Ukraine; and the Catholics of the Armenuan Rite in Armenia and scattered through out the Russian Empire (I know of Armenian Catholic Churches as far away as Tallinn and Saint Petersburg). At the time of the Russian Revolution, the official Catholic stance toward Socialism and Communism was very harsh, simply that it was incompatible with Catholic doctrine.

The Holy See of course would have been very interested in developments that would signify negative policies toward the Catholic flock by the leftist government. One would think that the Holy See would have anticipated the seizures of Catholic Church properties, convents, churches, monasteries, religious art, bank funds etc.

Through a large network of the religious and the observant, the Pope could direct that the nearest bishop send investigators to the Urals and report back on the fate of the IF.

The Revolution was very hard on the Catholic Church in the former Russian Empire, most of the buildings were confiscated, the religious art looted, bank accounts seized, bishops imprisoned and then in the 1920's the mass executions of Catholic nuns, priests, monks, and ordinary parishioners.

David
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2006, 08:25:13 PM »
Would it be inappropriate to contact the archives at the Vatican and ask if the report is available for copying or online?  The Holy See has an extensive web site, but I did not find any reference to this particular report.

I would be happy to contact them, however, I think there are others, far more knowledgeable than I, who might stand a better chance of getting the Vatican to pay attention to the request and ultimatley, sharing the report.

David, Bob, Lisa, Rob, Penny, Greg, Belochka, are just a few of the folks who know enough to have a detailed discussion like I suspect the Vatican would want to have (before releasing a report).  AlexP I suspect given your location that contact to the Vatican could be problematic...no??

best,
dca
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Dominic_Albanese »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 12:31:39 AM »
It would certainly be interesting to publish these papers. I personally would have no idea how to go about getting this done, but am willing to work with others to get this done.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 01:34:47 AM »
Quote
It would certainly be interesting to publish these papers. I personally would have no idea how to go about getting this done, but am willing to work with others to get this done.

Please count me into this project!  
 
After July 6 (U.S. time), I will be unavailable until after August 16 should anything require further thoughts.

Thanks,

Margarita


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David_Pritchard

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 09:38:00 PM »
At one time I was a member of a small organisation whose patrons included His Eminence Cardinal Alfons Maria Stickler, SDB, Librarian and Archivist emeritus of the Holy Roman Church. I suppose that I could try to e-mail some present members and see if I can make contact. I am acquainted with two persons authorised to do research in the Vatican Archives, I will e-mail one of them tonight.

Best wishes,

David

Offline Belochka

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2006, 10:25:39 PM »
An excellent beginning!

Thank you for taking the time to contact your acquaintances regarding this matter David.

Best regards,

Margarita
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Alixz

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2006, 05:27:10 PM »
What an interesting subject!!  If I can be of use in any way for "leg worK" or since we are in the cyber age "keyboard work", please let me know.

Robert_Hall

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2006, 05:44:47 PM »
The Vatican library/archives has recently made available documents from that era. All it takes is someone with scholarly credentials to ask and they are allowed to see them. It is not a lending library nor is it online. Someone has to actually show up and write their own notes [without ball point pen, for some obscure reason].

David_Pritchard

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2006, 06:22:51 PM »
Quote
The Vatican library/archives has recently made available documents from that era. All it takes is someone with scholarly credentials to ask and they are allowed to see them. It is not a lending library nor is it online. Someone has to actually show up and write their own notes [without ball point pen, for some obscure reason].

Correct Robert!

One must first be a scholar and be accredited to the library and archives before one is allowed to view books and manuscripts in Rome. It is de rigueur in archival environments to require that only pencils be used in research as markers, crayons, and pens of all types can cause permanent damage and future conservation risks to the books and manuscripts.

David


Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2006, 03:51:40 PM »
Yea, you guys have strengthened my point - this isn't a job for one of us amateur's (I'm only talking about myself here...).  When you approach an organization like the Vatican or the Archives of any royal family you need to be an accredited historian (or associated with one) and generally you have to go there.  Although, with the internet materials are slowly starting to become digitalized - something that will no doubt continue through the lives of most of us here.

dca

So David - your a historian - why not charter a bunch of us a jet (boat would be better for me) and take us to Rome for a 3 month research project!!!!!!!! Come on buddy, it'd be fun - loosen up and spend some of that $ you keep in your mattress!!:-/ :P :o

Tania

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2006, 04:25:30 PM »
I would imagine with all of David's credentials, and surely with his ken of global connects, David would be the one whom could best assert what or whom would be reliable, etc. But, in any case, this project would indeed take more than several months, and someone, or persons with full understandings of the best way to proceed and gain all needed information. Further, this would take more funds than just from a personal resource, and it would not be nice to saddle David with all involved in such a lengthy project.

As to monies kept in one's mattress, I don't think David would keep his dream monies there..... ;)

Best to all,

Tatiana+

stepan

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2006, 03:08:20 PM »
What happened to this "project" to find out about this document believed to exist in the Vatican? Is anyone doing any research at this moment? Anyway I think it would be very interesting to know any news about this!

lexi4

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Re: Pope Benedict XV and the Death of the Tsar
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2006, 04:32:28 PM »
I would also like to know if anything has happened with this.
Thank you,
Lexi