Author Topic: Who is the rightful heir?  (Read 398213 times)

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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #390 on: August 28, 2008, 10:34:12 PM »
The fundamental law was extinguished on the night of the murders, if not, when Nicky abdicated for himself and for his son.
I do not believe he had the right to abdicate for Alexei, and also he was under duress!
The commies did very well to destroy the dynasty, or else we would not even be having this conversation.
Hence my arguement that those"closest to the throne"out of sheer blood relationship with the last Tsar and or his father are the most eligible for the title of 'head of the House".Princess Maria Vlad, is certainly not this, NOR is her son. And I do not believe there even exists an "orthodox woman of equal status".
The Russianess of the family plays no bearing to this issue as they were Orhtodox and all identified as Russians, just like in the cases of  the King of the Greeks and the Queen of England.
If any restoration does occur, it will be made by the political party in office wanting to restore the Throne as a constituitional Monarchy.
That leaves the decision solely in hte hands of the Duma and men like Putin.They can appoint whomever they like, whether a Romanov or not is up to them.
This individual will have to have heirs and be seen to be politically acceptable to the majority of the Russian people.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 10:35:56 PM by Ilias_of_John »
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #391 on: August 29, 2008, 12:25:13 AM »
I will agree with you on some points, Islias of John.  Namely  the Emperor had no right to abdicate for his son, as he did NOT change the laws of succession. It is purely an academic exercises now, as the question has no bearing on current reality.  GD Maria is relying on those old laws, which, personally I find silly. But, legitimately,  her father and grandfather were indeed  the real heirs after Michael. Popularity not with standing.
 And your example of the Greek royal family just illustrates my point[ they are not Greek, they are mainly Danish.  They were imported by the so-called  mafor powers of the time and imposed.  The same is true of the Bulgarians and the Romanians.
  As for  Britain, there is no "Queen of England"  She is Queen of the UK of GB & NI, etc. Narry a mention of England.  But that is being pedantic. Until the late QM, they had no British blood in the line of succession, and now, because of the  Late Diana, Princess of Wales, they barely had any English blood.
 Back to the Russians, however. Yest it would be up to the powers that be in Russia to becide who, and probably the Russian citizens via a referndunm to restore a monarchy at all.  It is purely hypothetcical, as the chance of such are remote at best.
 
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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #392 on: August 29, 2008, 07:20:58 AM »
That must have been a really good scotch!
:)
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
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1 Peter 2:17

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #393 on: August 29, 2008, 10:37:16 AM »
I do not drink scotch, as a matter-of-fact, can't stand the stuff.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #394 on: August 29, 2008, 10:47:06 AM »
I agree with all Robert has said. I always think of the manifesto of Michael when he declined the throne and transferred imperial power to the Duma and brought an end to the dynasty and the imperial laws probably forever. It is for the Russian people alone to decide if and who and I am not at all sure they would choose the Vad's anyway. Good luck to George to find a wife of equal marriage and Orthodox - glass slipper comes to mind at this point or of course poison challis.

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #395 on: August 29, 2008, 01:32:02 PM »
I have said on numerous other posts that the future of the Fundamental Law rests with George and his marriage. If he doesn't marry, or marries unequally, the FL will be rendered moot. If he marries equally and has no children, same thing. The FL will only remain viable to a few if he marries equally and has issue.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #396 on: September 07, 2008, 08:55:30 PM »
Isn't it about time George got married?  ::) ::) ::)

Is he dating anyone?

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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #397 on: September 07, 2008, 10:30:02 PM »
Isn't it about time George got married?  ::) ::) ::)
Well, his father was thirty-three when he married Maria. George is only twenty-seven.  ;)

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #398 on: September 07, 2008, 10:38:43 PM »
Isn't it about time George got married?  ::) ::) ::)
Well, his father was thirty-three when he married Maria. George is only twenty-seven.  ;)

I don't know the particulars of his situation, but I would imagine the Kirby monies will not last forever. George thus has to worry about earning a living in addition to possibily contemplating a dynastic marriage, a family of his own, and whatever political career he envisions. If it takes more time than 27 or even 33, I should not wonder.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #399 on: September 07, 2008, 11:34:40 PM »
Who really cares?  It is his life and may decide not to marry at all.  It is nobody's business  other than his, after all.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #400 on: September 08, 2008, 06:51:29 PM »
Who really cares?  It is his life and may decide not to marry at all.  It is nobody's business other than his, after all.

Well, obviously, many people do or we would not be discussing it. I entirely agree with you when it comes to members of the family who have chosen to live as private citizens. And that would be a majority of the surviving family members today.

However, George and his mother are a different situation all together. As much as you and many others want to dismiss them as irrelevant, they are nonetheless political people and their lives are to an extent, a matter of public interest and discussion. In a nutshell, because he is considered to be a dynast, George and his marriage are fair game, while the marital plans, of say, Vassili's daughter's family, who are all private citizens, are not.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #401 on: September 08, 2008, 07:57:01 PM »
A dynast to what, Lisa?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #402 on: September 09, 2008, 01:17:04 AM »
A dynast to what, Lisa?

Not to what, but a member of the House of Romanov. Those who consider such things believe Leonida, Maria, and George are the sole members of this dynasty.

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #403 on: September 09, 2008, 02:09:32 AM »
With respect poppycock, as we say here. There are a whole number of reasons why many people do not consider them, Maria et all, to be dynasts above everyone else from the Romanov family. Her parents marriage is a start right back to Cyril and his traitors acts in 1917 perhaps ruling out his entire line. But a more basic fact is that it is a matter for the Russian people who if anyone from the Romanov family ever wears the crown and not for a one branch that is a squabbling family in Spain. Maria can say what she likes but the fundamental laws have not existed since GD Michael ended the throne, imperial power and laws by his signature to the refusal to accept the throne and transferring all powers to the Duma. His act was lawful and he brought the dynasty to and end until the people and the Duma voted on who, how etc. If they vote for Maria or George (who is seen more of a German prince) then so be it and good luck to her, as he has worked very hard over the years for that to happen but they might vote for someone else entirely. Maria cannot force her will on Russia and I do not think the Russians would accept it for one second. Whilst I would like to see the throne restored I believe GD Micheal's of wish of 1917 is paramount as is that of the Russian people rather than having laws that went out of use in 1917 and Maria shoved down their necks and no choice in the matter.
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Offline StevenL

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #404 on: September 09, 2008, 06:38:52 AM »
A dynast to what, Lisa?

One is not a dynast "to" anything. A dynast is a member of of current or formerly reigning family
who, by the traditions of the dynasty, would not be barred from succession should their turn come
either through moving up in the royal succession or through restoration of the former monarchy.