Author Topic: Who is the rightful heir?  (Read 398241 times)

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Offline amcbelladonna

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #465 on: June 20, 2009, 07:08:40 AM »
it should be a vote from all the noble  houses or russia who should be tsar there are several decended from the house of rurik like trubetskoy ,Shuvalov,Obolensky,Kurakin,Galitzine that prob have a more stronger claiment to the title of tsar

Offline amcbelladonna

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #466 on: June 20, 2009, 07:26:24 AM »
there are other noble families that could be the next tsar one Pr Aleksander, *Brussels 27.12.1975  of the house of czetwertynski direct descent from the house of rurik or other possibiliey

the house of galtizine
I1. Pr Dmitri, *Munich 7.9.1947; m.New York 9.5.1976 Gabrielle Mary O'Neil Donnelon (*Dublin 5.10.1948)
J1. Pr Philip, *New York 3.12.1979
J2. Pss Catherine, *New York 28.1.1982
I2. Pr Piotr, *Mendoza, Argentina 25.3.1955; m.(civ) Brussels 24.11.1981 (rel) Uccle 25.11.1981 Maria Anna of Austria (*19.3.1954)
J1. Pss Xenia, *Summit 23.5.1983
J2. Pss Tatiana, *Santa Clara 16.8.1984
J3. Pss Alexandra, *San Jose 7.8.1986
J4. Pss Maria, *Luxembourg 11.5.1988
J5. Pr Dmitri, *Luxembourg 11.6.1990
J6. Pr Teimuraz, *Luxembourg 27.5.1992
the house of obolensky
D3. Michel, *Brive-la-Gaillarde 6.6.1943; 1m: Paris 28.6.1968 (div 1972) Fran?ise Labadie (*Paris 23.8.1944; m.Higham, nr Colchester 8.5.1982 Jennifer Jane Goodchild (*Rushmere, nr Ipswich 17.7.1955)
E1. Kyra, *Paris 4.11.1983
E2. Anatole, *Paris 3.8.1985
E3. Xenia, *Paris 26.4.1989
the house of trubetskoy
J2. Pr Alexander, *Montlucon 29.5.1944; m.Brasilia 26.8.1977 Marie-Pierre Eliane Ansselin (*Rouen 19.11.1946)
K1. Pr Pyotr, *Brasilia 6.2.1978
K2. Pss Yelizaveta, *Brasilia 21.9.1981


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #467 on: June 20, 2009, 10:15:33 AM »
Heir to what ? There is NO throne of Russia. Head of the house of Romanov is what is in dispute. There has not been a "Tsar" since 1725.  Peter the Great abolished the title.  There is NO empire to claim by anyone.
 Simply an exercise in futility and fantasy of things long past......
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Offline Michael HR

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #468 on: June 24, 2009, 04:56:25 AM »
How true
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Offline Ausmanov

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #469 on: July 01, 2009, 05:25:14 PM »
I agree, Tsardom is a thing of the past, there is always a chance that it could come back and i would love it if it did but they are extremely slim odd's. I think it is important though to have a head of the Romanov house though.
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #470 on: October 10, 2009, 05:11:57 PM »
Are there Rurikid claimants to the Russian throne ?

There are Rurikid descendants in the female line. I don't know about any official claimants because the line has been extinct in the male line for many centuries so there are probably many heirs.

Interestingly, some think the line of Prince Rostislav Rostislavovich is particularly viable because Rosti's mother was Princess Alexandra Galitzine, a Rurikid descendant. Rosti's oldest son is presently living in Russia from what I hear.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #471 on: October 11, 2009, 10:41:36 PM »
What can you say about Archduke Valery Kubarev and August and Sovereign Royal Household Rurikovich ?

See http://www.casarealrurikovich.com/

I can say it looks phony to me. there is no sovereign royal house called Rurikovich!

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #472 on: October 16, 2009, 06:46:39 AM »
Quote
So, What is in the name Romanov? Yussupov? Kubarev? Mos-cow? Moskva?
Centuries worth of history will tell you what's in those names. The website seems fake and devoid of facts - or any evidence to the contrary.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #473 on: October 16, 2009, 10:51:01 AM »
So, What is in the name Romanov? Yussupov? Kubarev? Mos-cow? Moskva?

Gee, I'd have thought you would know this stuff! Moscow is a large city in Russia. Moskva is the Russian rendition of Moscow.

Yussupov is the name of a princely house in the Imperial period. Felix sounds like he was a terrific queen, although not of the royal variety.

No idea who Kubarev is, will it be on the test?

Romanov, or properly Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp, was the dynastic name of the Russian Imperial house through 1917.

However, none of this has anything to do with the fact that "Rurikovich" is not a city, a princely house, or a dynastic name. Or are you using the Chewbaca defense (from South Park)?

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #474 on: October 17, 2009, 10:59:33 AM »
Quote from: Saka
The direct male line of the Romanov dynasty ended with the death of  Peter II, the only son of Tsarevich Alexei Petrovich, the son of Peter I of Russia by his 1st wife Eudoxia Lopukhina, and Holstein-Gottorp House took over, adding the Romanov name to theirs.
Anna Petrovna was a female line descendant of Peter the Great. What's this line of questioning related to? are you trying to imply the house of "Rurikovich" is legitimate?

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #475 on: October 17, 2009, 10:44:49 PM »
Quote from: Wikipedia
Anatoly Fomenko is a supporter of drastically revising chronological history. He has created his own revision called New Chronology, based on statistical correlations, dating of zodiacs, and by examining the mathematics and astronomy involved in chronology. Fomenko claims that he has discovered that many historical events do not correspond mathematically with the dates they are supposed to have occurred on. He asserts from this that all of ancient history (including the history of Greece, Rome, and Egypt) is just a reflection of events that occurred in the Middle Ages and that all of Chinese and Arab history are fabrications of 17th and 18th century Jesuits. He also claims that Jesus lived in the 12th century A.D. and was crucified on Joshua's Hill; that the Trojan war and the Crusades were the same historical event; and that Genghis Khan and the Mongols were actually Russians. As well as disputing written chronologies, Fomenko also disputes more objective dating techniques such as dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating (see here for an examination of the latter criticism). His historical books include Empirico-statistical Analysis of Narrative Material and Its Applications and History: Fiction or Science?. Most Russian scientists considered Fomenko's historical works to be pseudoscientific
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toscany

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #476 on: October 18, 2009, 11:23:55 AM »
From the Grand Duke Mikhail Aleksandrovich Romanov' own hand, we remember this release: (English translation)

A heavy burden has fallen upon me by my brother's decision to transfer the Russian imperial throne at a time of unprecedented war and unrest among the population.
Inspired by the thought across the nation and the welfare of our country, which must be above all, I made the difficult decision to accept the supreme power only in the event that such is the will of our great people, that the constituent assembly of representatives of the people establish a new form of government and that a new fundamental laws are established for the Russian state.

Therefore, I appeal to God's blessing, I ask all citizens of the Russian state to obey the provisional government was formed and has been vested with full power on the initiative of the State Duma, until a Constituent Assembly to be held in the shortest possible vote on the general, direct, and secret equitable, expressing the will of the people in its decision on a form of government.

Mikhail.

At the time, the GD placed upon the Russian people, the responsibility and willingness for the return of the Monarchy in Russia, thus he declined to accept the throne until approved by a constitutional assembly. With the way that things stack up at this moment in time, I agree with Lisa, and those that favor the Ilyinskys, who represent the eldest male son with Dmitri Pavlovich.

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #477 on: October 18, 2009, 11:48:48 PM »
Quote from: Toscany
With the way that things stack up at this moment in time, I agree with Lisa, and those that favor the Ilyinskys, who represent the eldest male son with Dmitri Pavlovich.
Those that follow this line of thinking (GD Maria = illegitimate) concede that there are no legitimate Romanov dynasts, hence the dynasty ceased to exist with the death of GD Vladimir in 1992.

This makes good reading for those who don't consider Maria the Head of the Imperial House, or that the Dynasty is dead: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/6517/indexmaingsainty.html
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 12:09:12 AM by richard_1990 »

toscany

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #478 on: October 19, 2009, 03:27:58 PM »
A note worthy article, and so are the links that go along with it.  You can read more by referencing, HSH Princess Vera Ivanovna of Russia, who was 92 (living in New York) at the time of the article.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #479 on: October 19, 2009, 05:24:19 PM »
Quote from: Toscany
With the way that things stack up at this moment in time, I agree with Lisa, and those that favor the Ilyinskys, who represent the eldest male son with Dmitri Pavlovich.
Those that follow this line of thinking (GD Maria = illegitimate) concede that there are no legitimate Romanov dynasts, hence the dynasty ceased to exist with the death of GD Vladimir in 1992.

This makes good reading for those who don't consider Maria the Head of the Imperial House, or that the Dynasty is dead: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/6517/indexmaingsainty.html

To be clear, my own views are a bit more complex.

If there is to be a Romanov claimant, the divisions within the family need to be repaired, at least publically, regardless of who emerges as "the one".

If George Mikhailovich is it, he would need to marry equally and produce children, in addition to living in Russia.

If he cannot do this, the legitimist cause is dead, and an heir will need to be found among the Mikhailovichi.

I agree that HSH Prince Dmitri Ilyinsky would be a good choice, as he is the heir by primogeniture and has produced children, albeit daughters. I'm not sure that Tim Ilyinsky is interested in this royalty business, but he would be a good choice.

So would HSH Prince Rostislav Rostislavovich, an intelligent young man currently living in Russia.