Author Topic: Yorkist Princesses  (Read 40036 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Yorkist Princesses
« on: October 22, 2006, 07:52:16 AM »
Hey everyone, I thought this could be an interesting topic, about Edward IV's sisters and daughters (except Elizabeth of York, since she has her own thread).

Edward IV's sisters were:
  • Anne (1439-1476). She married firstly Henry Holland, Duke of Exeter (1430-1473), himself a Plantagenet descendant. They had one daughter, Anne Holland (1455-1475), who was the first wife of Elizabeth Woodville's son, Thomas Grey. The Duke and Duchess of Exeter were divorced in 1472, and Anne married Sir Thomas St Leger (ex.1483), with whom she also had a daughter, another Anne (1476-1526). Anne St Leger married George Manners, Lord de Ros, and was ancestress of the Earls of Rutland.
  • Elizabeth (1444-c.1503). She married John de la Pole (1442-c.1491), Duke of Suffolk, who had been married at a very young age to Margaret Beaufort. Their children were:
    -Catherine (1461-1523), married William, Lord Stourton.
    -John, Earl of Lincoln (1462-1487, killed at Battle of Stoke). Richard III designated John as his heir. John married Margaret Fitzalan.
    -Elizabeth (1466-1489). She married Henry Lovell, Baron Morley.
    -Edmund, Earl of Suffolk (1471-ex. 1513). He married Margaret Scrope.
    -Richard, 'the White Rose' (killed at Pavia, 1525).
    -Humphrey, a priest (1474-1513).
    -William (1478-1539). He married Katherine Stourton.
    -Edward, Archdeacon of Richmond (d. 1485).
    -Dorothy (d. unmarried).
  • Margaret (14461503). The Tudors called her 'Aunt to all the Pretenders'. She married Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy (1433-1477).
  • Ursula (1455).

Edward IV's younger daughters were:
  • Mary (1467-1482). Apparently there were plans for her to marry John of Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
  • Cecily (1469-1507). She had been betrothed to the future James IV, and to his uncle the Duke of Albany, but when Henry VII became king she was forced to marry his uncle John Welles, Lord Welles. They had two daughters who died young, and when Welles died too in 1499, Cecily married Thomas Kyme without the King's permission. She was banished from court, and it took special intervention from Margaret Beaufort to return her to favour. She carried Arthur Tudor at his christening, attended Elizabeth of York at her coronation, and carried Katherine of Aragon's train when she married Arthur. Wikipedia says there is a record of her lending money to her sister the Queen in 1502. Thomas More described her as 'not so fortunate as fair'.
  • Margaret (April-December 1472).
  • Anne (1475-1511). In 1479, it was agreed that she would marry Philip the Handsome of Austria, but of course the marriage never happened. In 1494, she instead married Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey (1473-1554). They had no surviving children, and he later married Elizabeth Stafford.
  • Catherine (1479-1527). She was supposed to marry Katherine of Aragon's brother Juan, but negotiations were still in progress when her father died. Henry VII also negotiated an agreement with Scotland, whereby Catherine would marry the Duke of Ross, son of James III, her mother Elizabeth Woodville was marry James III himself, and another of Catherine's sisters would marry the future James IV. However, James III died in 1488 and James IV didn't pursue the agreement. She ended up marrying William Courtenay, Earl of Devon (1475-1511) and had three children:
    -Edward (1497-1502).
    -Henry, Marquess of Exeter (1498-1539). Married Gertrude Blount.
    -Margaret (1500-1526). She married Henry Somerset, Earl of Worchester.
    Her husband William was attainted in 1504 and thus not able to succeed his father as Earl of Devon. Henry VIII gave him the title in 1511 though. Catherine seems to have been a favourite aunt of Henry VIII - she was godmother to Mary I, and her son Henry Courtenay was favoured by Henry until 1539. Henry VIII also apparently 'brought her into sure estate' when she was in financial trouble.
  • Bridget (1480-1517). She became a nun, and maintained a correspondance with her sister the Queen, which I think is strange, since they probably barely new each other.

Most of these women are complete enigmas to me. Was the Duchess of Exeter's divorce a scandal? What were the grounds for divorce? Who was Thomas St Leger?

Was the Duchess of Suffolk's later life, under the Tudors, financially comfortable? Was she distrusted because Richard III had made her son his heir?

I wonder how Elizabeth of York's relations with her sisters were, especially Cecily, so close to her in age. It's a testement to Henry VII's meaness that the Queen (the Queen mind!) was forced to borrow money from her younger sister! And what was Cecily's incentive for marrying Kyme? Love, maybe, or just a desire to escape Henry's court.

Why was Henry VIII so fond of his aunt Catherine? I wonder if she spent much time at his court. Where she or her sisters ever referred to as 'princess' during the Tudor regime?

So many unanswered questions!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Yorkist Princesses
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2006, 08:23:44 AM »
I've got a very tatty copy of Clive's "The Sun of York", there might be some info in there. I'll have a look.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Yorkist Princesses
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2006, 08:29:06 AM »
I've got a very tatty copy of Clive's "The Sun of York", there might be some info in there. I'll have a look.

Thanks.  ;) I've just read that William Courtenay, Catherine's husband, was attainted for having a correspondance with Edmund de la Pole, Earl of Suffolk.
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Prince_Christopher

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Re: Yorkist Princesses
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2006, 10:18:08 PM »
    • Bridget (1480-1517). She became a nun, and maintained a correspondance with her sister the Queen, which I think is strange, since they probably barely new each other.


    I've always found these women interesting as well.  They were in tenuous situations regarding succession and marriage.

    Any other information about Bridget?  She was only 11 years older that her nephew the king.  Fate spared her by her death before the big religious tumult.  What a precarious position she would have been in had she survived to see it.

    Offline Prince_Lieven

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 09:58:28 AM »
    Yes indeed! I wonder if Henry would have 'looked after' her, during the Dissolution. Given how fond he seemed of Catherine, her sister, it's not improbable. Only 37 when she died - I wonder how?  ???
    "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
    -Sherlock Holmes

    "Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

    Offline Kimberly

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 03:12:09 PM »
    The problem is there is very little info out there about these ladies and I am sure they had fascinating lives. I haven't given up on my books yet but I have found little more than you have already posted Liam :-\
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    bell_the_cat

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 05:19:01 PM »
    I had the idea that Bridget was mentally deficient somehow, and therefore was put in a convent - don't know where I got that from though!

    Offline Prince_Lieven

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 05:22:14 PM »
    Never heard that one.  ??? Once Henry VII came to power, the veil was probably more attractive than being married to someone of his choosing. Then again, Anne and Catherine both made good marriages . . . perhaps she was just a very pious person.
    "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
    -Sherlock Holmes

    "Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

    Prince_Christopher

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #8 on: October 25, 2006, 06:40:34 PM »
    I think it is odd that none of the foreign marriages worked out for the daughters of Edward....

    Could the other monarchs have been apprehensive about making a union with one of them?

    ilyala

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 02:12:31 AM »
    well, they were in an awkward position. one would think that richard 3rd was the usurper and henry 7th the saviour, but then richard 3rd was family and henry wasn't... so at some point there must have been some conflict. remember margaret of burgundy? maybe the foreign monarchs just didn't wanna get involved in the whole thing.

    Alianore

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 06:20:43 AM »
    I had the idea that Bridget was mentally deficient somehow, and therefore was put in a convent - don't know where I got that from though!

    I've sure I've heard that too, Bell - but I can't remember where, either!  Maybe in a novel?
    This thread is fascinating.  I wish I could contribute something useful and interesting, but I'm afraid I don't know anything else about these women.   :'(

    Offline Prince_Lieven

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 08:02:10 AM »
    well, they were in an awkward position. one would think that richard 3rd was the usurper and henry 7th the saviour, but then richard 3rd was family and henry wasn't... so at some point there must have been some conflict. remember margaret of burgundy? maybe the foreign monarchs just didn't wanna get involved in the whole thing.

    you're probably right ilyala. Margaret, 'Aunt to all the Pretenders' probably spent a lot of Burgundian money supporting the failed camapaigns of the likes of Perkin Warbeck.  :P I wonder what Elizabeth Woodville would've thought about being married to the King of Scots . . . apparently Henry VII wanted to avoid having financial responsibility for his mother in law.  ;D
    "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
    -Sherlock Holmes

    "Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

    Offline Kimberly

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #12 on: October 26, 2006, 09:49:57 AM »
    I had the idea that Bridget was mentally deficient somehow, and therefore was put in a convent - don't know where I got that from though!

    I always thought that when there was a plethora of daughters, one  was usually professed as a nun.  Both Ursula and Bridget were the youngest daughters of their respective families and as such were the "ideal" candidates for the "job". Just my two pennies worth.
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    Offline Prince_Lieven

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #13 on: October 26, 2006, 03:12:46 PM »
    I agree with you, Kim.

    Does anyone know what Edward IV's daughter Mary died of? She was only 14 or 15.  :-\
    "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
    -Sherlock Holmes

    "Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

    Offline Kimberly

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    Re: Yorkist Princesses
    « Reply #14 on: October 26, 2006, 03:49:24 PM »
    She supposedly had a "weak constitution"
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