Author Topic: Clementina Sobieska  (Read 11263 times)

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elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2006, 01:27:10 PM »
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I always feel a bit sorry for Clementina  :'(ieska !


:D :D :D

So do I when you aren't making me laugh at the poor woman's expense!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by elena_maria_vidal »

Offline Marc

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2006, 02:02:50 PM »
Thank you for lovely portraits and article about Clementina!

palatine

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2006, 10:37:48 AM »
As a child, Clementina dreamed of becoming Queen of England, which is why she jumped at the chance when James made her an offer of marriage.  Poor Clementina (and her parents) labored under the delusion that James's restoration was imminent.  At the time the marriage was arranged, James was on a visit to the Spanish court, which may have strengthened their belief that he had secured support to invade England.

After they married, Clementina was aghast to discover that James had no restoration plans in the works and that he'd married her for her money.  She was energetic and intrepid; she couldn't understand James's lassitude or his placid acceptance of his exile.  She tried to get rid of some of his advisors, particularly those she felt were obstructive and/or rude to her.  She also offered unwanted advice about ways and means of getting his throne back.  As a result, Clementina and James fought constantly.  Things were made worse by the fact that although James was deeply pious, he was often unfaithful to her.  She finally fled to a convent rather than tolerate their marriage any longer.

Clementina's thinness was not the result of religious fasting.  It's almost certain that she was an anorexic.  Perhaps it was her way of exerting control over her situation.  Clementina had few friends at James's court, was deeply frustrated by the exile, and got along badly with her husband.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

Modena

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2006, 08:05:19 PM »
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.  Things were made worse by the fact that although James was deeply pious, he was often unfaithful to her.  She finally fled to a convent rather than tolerate their marriage any longer.

No, she accused him of being unfaithful, but then she threw lots of accusations at him.  :-[  Poor guy had to defend himself against such slanders.
She appears to be a little manic at times.

palatine

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2006, 01:40:07 PM »
Clementina sincerely believed that her husband had been unfaithful to her with Lady Inverness, whose husband was one of James's most important advisors.  Rightly or wrongly, Clementina hated Lady Inverness for having an affair with James, and loathed Lord Inverness for advising James badly.  The more Clementina did to convince James to get rid of these two, the more he turned against his wife and clung to them.  

When Clementina went into a convent, she sent a letter to her sister blaming the Invernesses for her separation from her husband.   She may have hoped to embarrass James into giving the couple up in exchange for her return from the convent, but he refused to do so, probably because he had an heir and a spare, as well as control of her money.  He didn't need Clementina anymore.



bell_the_cat

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2006, 09:14:04 AM »
Clementina had a lavish funeral and monument, that seems to have been financed by the Pope. In the year following her death an account of her life and pieties was published by the Vatican, with a view to having her declared a Blessed. This may have been the origin of the story that her death (by self inflicted starvation) was a result of over enthusiastic fasting.

Clementina  objected to Anglican tutors being engaged for her eldest son, which was one of the reasons for her flight to the convent in about 1726.

palatine

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 05:07:50 PM »
Clementina had a lavish funeral and monument, that seems to have been financed by the Pope. In the year following her death an account of her life and pieties was published by the Vatican, with a view to having her declared a Blessed. This may have been the origin of the story that her death (by self inflicted starvation) was a result of over enthusiastic fasting.

It’s possible that the Sobieskis contributed money towards Clementina’s funeral; they were very wealthy.  She came from an interesting family; it’s a pity that relatively little seems to have been written about her relatives, or about her for that matter.  I think that one of the things that made her empathize with her husband (at least at first) was the fact that both of them came from families that had fallen from power, families that had been betrayed by people they thought they could count on.  Many had believed that her father would be elected king of Poland, but he’d lost the election, the first son of a king of Poland who’d ever done so.  Her family’s resultant loss of power and status probably contributed to her need for control, which manifested as anorexia. 

Clementina’s paternal grandfather, Jan Sobieski, was an able general and one of Poland’s better kings.  He’s best remembered for defeating the Turks at the gates of Vienna.  His wife, Marie, had a great deal of influence over him and over Polish politics.  I recently came across some curious information about her origins.  It’s complicated, so I’ll reserve it; suffice it to say that her parents were renowned for their intrepidity, a quality that was inherited by her granddaughter Clementina and her great-grandson Bonnie Prince Charlie.

bell_the_cat

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2006, 05:28:28 PM »
I know that Clementina's father died in 1737, the year after Clementina's own death - this certainly improved the finances of the Stuarts. However I don't think this entirely explains the splendour of her obsequies!

palatine

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2006, 12:22:05 PM »
I know that Clementina's father died in 1737, the year after Clementina's own death - this certainly improved the finances of the Stuarts. However I don't think this entirely explains the splendour of her obsequies!

The Pope genuinely liked Clementina, but that doesn’t explain the lavish funeral, or the lavish funerals given to her husband and sons in later years.  My guess is that the Vatican decided to bury them in style to demonstrate to Protestant rulers and nobles that if they converted to Catholicism and lost their territories, etc., they could count on the Church to take care of them financially, even in death.  It’s my understanding that Christina, ex-Queen of Sweden, had been permitted to kick up her heels in Rome, and so forth, for the same reason: to attract important converts.  Finally, the lavish funerals might also have been expiation for the fact that the Vatican had winked at the Glorious Revolution for political reasons instead of rallying Catholic rulers to James II’s side against William III, a Calvinist, and Mary II, an Anglican. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2006, 12:23:47 PM by palatine »

bell_the_cat

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Re: Clementina Sobieska
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2006, 03:48:23 PM »
There was even a book, published under the auspices of the Pope the year after her death which detailed her examplary life, perhaps with a view to beatification. It may be that this was the book which started the story of her "extreme fasting"!