Was Prince Felix a closeted gay man?

[Romanov_fan]

Felix wasn't closeted seems to be the final word on this thread. And that he was either bi-sexual ( I judge this  to be the correct term), or he was gay is the conclusion in that matter.Am I right?

[Romanov_fan]

I myself conclude he wasn't closeted, I think everybody has always wondered why that word is in this thread. I doubt it was accurate.

[Valmont]

         I think someone pointed out earlier (I do not recall if it was in this thread) but in those times, such terms as "closeted" or "bi-sexual" did not exist.  General public knew of such behaviors and I recall they  called them  or name them "Grammar mistakes" or something similar. (I am working from memory).

        As for Felix being into our understanding of what a "Closeted gay man"  would be, It think he was not. He braged about his trasvesti adventures  even in his memories. it is known he did not hasitated to wear his designs so he would show the models at "Irfe" how the dresses should be worn. It is known he wore make up sometimes so thick that there's an anecdote about his make up cracking  down and falling into his supper. I think he preffered women as sexual companions if there was not men available. (I do not know if the term homosexual was used in those times, I think it was not.) and he did not care to hide it. I could assume that hidding it was the least he care about. If we were to apply today's terms on Felix's behavior I would have to agree with Greg King when he wrote "The only Closet Fellix ever was, was his Mother's... and that was to steal her clothes".....

Arturo Vega-Llausás

[clockworkgirl21]

I know this is sort of an old topic, but I believe the term "homosexual" was used back in the 1910s. I believe this because I'm reading a book called the Diary of Ellen Rimbauer, and it takes place in the 1910s. I know this book is fiction, but it's one of those books where the author tries to fool the reader into thinking it's a true diary. In this book, someone the character knew is gay, and the term "homosexual" was used. If the author wished to fool the reader into thinking it's a real diary, I doubt she would have used a term that that wasn't used back then.

[Romanov_fan]

It would be interesting to know if that term was used, it could have been, but probably not widely nor in polite society.. I doubt Felix would ever have called himself this, but then his inclinations were at least a bit in this direction. They used euphenisms back then, and this seems too straight a term, to me, to have been used widely. We can really debate whether Anastasia was gay, but we have to say that Felix was inclined towards men, with some women inbetween.

[Richard_Cullen]

Hi

The term 'homosexual' in legal parlance has certainly been around since the early 19th century and could be applied in Tsarist Russia.  More unpleasantly the terms 'sodomy' and catamite were used to describe males involved in same gender sex.

I think from looking at lots of books you will find references to depraved and carnal habits when it can only mean gay sex.  The reason it was spoken so much was that so many of the aristocracy were enagaged in gay sex.

If you look at the biography of Reginald Second Viscount Esher you can see how rife it was in Voctorian England.

Despite the fact that gay sex was illegal even between consenting men many of those who purported to be 'straight' and were married were in fact gay.

Richard

[Romanov_fan]

thanks for letting us know they used that term back then.

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

I think it was pretty much common knowledge, but he never came right out and said it. I heard that at the time he wrote Lost Splendor, admitting to being gay was punishable in France (where he lived) by being sent to labor camps busting rocks in the Pyrannes mountains!

Well, in that case you heard wrong. Homosexual relations between consenting adults in private have been legal in France since 1791.

BTW heterosexual transvestites are autogynephiliacs, i.e. men who get off on imagining themselves as women. They are generally rather respectable members of society. The other group of transvestites, the homosexual ones like Felix, often display criminal behaviour, like Felix's, from a young age, according to Blanchard's transsexualism etiology. That they usually also have lower than average IQ and come from the lower social classes does not fit with Felix, though.

[Leslie.R]

I hate to be rude. But I feel that in Irina case she married him and it was her duty to stay with her husband. She simply could not and would not divorce him, this meant she must stay with him and learn to deal with his behavior. I personal do not feel that he was gay but if he was it is not my place to judge him on it. He lived in a time were that was looked down upon so if he was homosexual then he delt with it. I personal do not feel he was, due to the fact that once the problems of his past were dead and gone why would he stay with his wife? If you would gay and your family and surroundings where changed in that way wouldn't you then divorce her and move on with life? I know that I would. I come from an old russian family and I am homosexual and I know my family does not approve of it but as long as I am respectful they just simply dismiss it. I know that if I were to marry a woman then my family was killed off and the society that I live in was no longer running my life I would look to my lover for comfort and leave my wife so that I might be with my lover full time. So in my mind I do not feel he was gay. I just keep thinking why stay with Irina all that time if he was?





If I have offended anyone with this post, I ask your forgiveness please.

[Russian Art Lover]

Hi

The term 'homosexual' in legal parlance has certainly been around since the early 19th century and could be applied in Tsarist Russia.  More unpleasantly the terms 'sodomy' and catamite were used to describe males involved in same gender sex.
Richard

I know that the term "bugger" was definitely used at that time, because when GD Sergei Alexandrovich was governor of Moscow, they used to have a play on words based on the Russian word for a small hill (bugr).

They said that Rome stood on seven hills ("bugrs"), but Moscow stood on only one "bugger" (i.e. Sergei!).

[feodorovna]

I hate to be rude. But I feel that in Irina case she married him and it was her duty to stay with her husband. She simply could not and would not divorce him, this meant she must stay with him and learn to deal with his behavior. I personal do not feel that he was gay but if he was it is not my place to judge him on it. He lived in a time were that was looked down upon so if he was homosexual then he delt with it. I personal do not feel he was, due to the fact that once the problems of his past were dead and gone why would he stay with his wife? If you would gay and your family and surroundings where changed in that way wouldn't you then divorce her and move on with life? I know that I would. I come from an old russian family and I am homosexual and I know my family does not approve of it but as long as I am respectful they just simply dismiss it. I know that if I were to marry a woman then my family was killed off and the society that I live in was no longer running my life I would look to my lover for comfort and leave my wife so that I might be with my lover full time. So in my mind I do not feel he was gay. I just keep thinking why stay with Irina all that time if he was?


LeslieR, you sound as if you come from a position where you care, something I don't feel able to say of Felix. I believe he stayed married to Irina because it suited them both for him to do so. They made an exquisitely beautifuland probably superficial, couple and I have no doubt that each revelled in being admired by both sexes. I don't imagine it to have been a conventional marriage. Importantly, there was enough money to support and sustain whatever they chose to do. I sense yearning behind the desire to  "look to my lover for comfort and leave my wife so that I might be with my lover full time". I can't credit Felix with having that depth of emotion, I think, for him, it was more about "I want it and I will have it," and I imagine that when things on an emotional level, became to hot for him to handle, it was to Irina that he turned. I believe she placed few, if any, emotional demands on him and he was happy with things as they were. Marriages are based on so much more than sex-they had a child, it happened once-and I think they were each others best friend.





If I have offended anyone with this post, I ask your forgiveness please.

[feodorovna]

I hate to be rude. But I feel that in Irina case she married him and it was her duty to stay with her husband. She simply could not and would not divorce him, this meant she must stay with him and learn to deal with his behavior. I personal do not feel that he was gay but if he was it is not my place to judge him on it. He lived in a time were that was looked down upon so if he was homosexual then he delt with it. I personal do not feel he was, due to the fact that once the problems of his past were dead and gone why would he stay with his wife? If you would gay and your family and surroundings where changed in that way wouldn't you then divorce her and move on with life? I know that I would. I come from an old russian family and I am homosexual and I know my family does not approve of it but as long as I am respectful they just simply dismiss it. I know that if I were to marry a woman then my family was killed off and the society that I live in was no longer running my life I would look to my lover for comfort and leave my wife so that I might be with my lover full time. So in my mind I do not feel he was gay. I just keep thinking why stay with Irina all that time if he was?





If I have offended anyone with this post, I ask your forgiveness please.

[Maria_Pavlovna]

To me, on my historical and point of view, of Prince Felix.

He was raised an aristocrat, known to be vain, snobby and imperious and also charming to though he likes. And use to get everything he wants, as a typical spoiled rich boy as his family was FABULAOUSLY Wealthy, richer then the ruling house.

In the 1900s to the end of the Russian Empire, for Russian aristocrats boys like him, being flamboyant and cross dressing were all the rage! And as being rich, thought to be immortal, like any rich or famous person now.

As been gay, I think he was more “Bi-sexual” since most gay men would then and even now would not consider marring and less mating with a woman; as a outgoing as he was I really doubt he’ll hid such as his gender and sexuality.

As for his wife Princess Irina, they were good friends and greatly understand each other which made their marriage last and happy enough. They both had love affairs (him with both men and women) after their daughter was born.  He did say once, that Irina married him for his money, and he married her out of pride, think of it, he married the Emperor’s ONLY niece (by blood). Their marriage may not be passionate love but it was successful.

As for murdering Rasputin, I did remember reading once- in his memoirs, that he thought (and many even agree with him) that Rasputin and the Empress was destroying Russia’s government and he in his mind it was his duty to get rid of Rasputin for good.

[Kalafrana]

I can't help thinking that Yussupov thoroughly enjoyed shocking people! Certainly he was very theatrically and his appearing on the stage as a woman was part of that.

Ann

[Stardust]

As for his wife Princess Irina, they were good friends and greatly understand each other which made their marriage last and happy enough. They both had love affairs

 
 I didn't know that Irina had a love affair.  Does anyone have any details about that?