Author Topic: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall  (Read 40994 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2006, 08:42:24 PM »
I'd be willing to bet that's the case in this instance -- something akin to when Helen_A. wrote "20/7" in her last post when I think she probably meant "24/7". Now, we all know Helen is aware there are 24 hours in a day, and we're probably not going to question her intelligence or her writing ability because of a keyboard slip.

You'd lose the bet  8). In fact, I meant 20/7  - I did get to sleep sometimes - 4 hours per day   ;) :D.

A wonderful example which illustrates the meaning of numbers.  ;)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2006, 09:57:46 PM »
I'd be willing to bet that's the case in this instance -- something akin to when Helen_A. wrote "20/7" in her last post when I think she probably meant "24/7". Now, we all know Helen is aware there are 24 hours in a day, and we're probably not going to question her intelligence or her writing ability because of a keyboard slip.

You'd lose the bet  8). In fact, I meant 20/7  - I did get to sleep sometimes - 4 hours per day   ;) :D.


Hoo hoo -- that's terrific! I briefly considered that possibility but figured what the heck, and took a risk.  Good thing I didn't bet all the cash in my wallet, like I did last week on anther thread! :D
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2006, 08:45:58 AM »
It is not a matter of avoiding criticism of someone who may happent to be one's acquaintance or friend.  That is not the case here.  Charlotte Zeepvat is an acquaiintance of mine.  I thinnk highly of her work.  But I am irked to no end by her ridiculos use of the Grand Prince/Princess title, which even according to the Imperial Foreign Minister's diplomatic guide is incorrect.  I also do not accept her take on KR particularly when she has stated that because he had children he was not gay.  People who know very little about human sexuality should not make statements of the kind.

In the past I have disagreed with statements made by other authors, like Greg King, Penny Wilson, Marlen Koenig and yes even Coryne Hall.  All I consider at the very least friends, if not very good acquaintances.

The point here is the way in which criticism is metted out by some of our fellow posters...critisim which goes beyond disagreeing with someone's take and lands into a flat out vendetta style attack and open blasting of someone's efforts to research, write and publish a book.  In years past I described these sort of critics as nothing more than "bitter" rocking chair writers, who can barely write their signature on a check and yet blast away at someone who has undertaken the endeavour to write a full book or an article.  And you know what, the more I see this the more I am convinced that rocking chair authors are safely ensconced in their realm of criticism and will never get off their lazy behind and actually share something positive, illuminating and intersting with the rest of us.

Surely, there will be many in this discussion who are going to reply to my post with vitriol and even a personal attack.  However, as someone who has authored more than 50 articles, authored three books, and coauthored two, somene who has published six books now, I have a stake in this.  I also have developed a rather thick skin when it comes to unkind and uncivil attacks and always mention so to those adventurous people like Coryne Hall, who actually dare to sit down and write more than a ripping of someone else's work.

All in all...books include mistakes.  Yes they do, even mine. Marlene has already accepted the same. We are not perfect.  What makes us different from rocking chair writers is that we dare put our thoughts to paper in a positive manner, that we share with the reading world what we've researched and studied, that we care enough about this topic of ours to publish our findings. And if someone doesn't like it, or takes exception to my words, well tampis, but entre nous I am simply sickened by these personal attacks on hardworking authors which are tinged, in some cases, with faintly covered envy.

There...I've said enough!

Arturo Beéche

PS: To all those of you who emailed and urged that I reply to this, thanks, I share your opinion and here it is posted...enjoy reading and relishishing the avalanche that is about to rain on me.
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helenazar

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #93 on: October 13, 2006, 09:01:49 AM »
I am simply sickened by these personal attacks on hardworking authors which are tinged, in some cases, with faintly covered envy.

Hi Art,

I am just curious -  what makes you think that these criticisms are personal? Perhaps our definitions of the term "personal" differ. Thanks!

Helen

P.S.   My definitions of "personal":

*concerning or affecting a particular person and his or her private life and personality

*intimately concerning a person's body or physical being

I would like to hear yours.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 09:27:09 AM by Helen_A »

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #94 on: October 13, 2006, 10:36:46 AM »
When someone comes in here and says that because there was an error on a date therefore her entire workload is not worth reading.  That, to me, is a personal attack - for one mistake this person's work of more than 10 years is therefore thrown into the trash bin.

Coryne is not the only one who has suffered these sort of attacks.  Penny and Greg undergo this vitriol on a regular basis, usually from people who have never written a book, nor can ever muster the knowledge and effort to write a book, much less get it published for the love of God.

And I am speaking about generalities indeed...this is not directed to you or anyone in particular...let blame lay where it falls, but hnestly the level of criticism I see coming from someone of our fellow posters is simply beyond the pale...it is as if Greg, Penny, Coryne can do no right.  I'd love to see what the rocking chair authors can produce, write and publish...simply dying to see what they can do.

And with that enough said...I've got to go and teach three classes today!

Arturo Beéche
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http://erhj.blogspot.com
European Royal History Journal
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Offline Ortino

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #95 on: October 13, 2006, 11:27:58 AM »
When someone comes in here and says that because there was an error on a date therefore her entire workload is not worth reading.  That, to me, is a personal attack - for one mistake this person's work of more than 10 years is therefore thrown into the trash bin.

Coryne is not the only one who has suffered these sort of attacks.  Penny and Greg undergo this vitriol on a regular basis, usually from people who have never written a book, nor can ever muster the knowledge and effort to write a book, much less get it published for the love of God.

And I am speaking about generalities indeed...this is not directed to you or anyone in particular...let blame lay where it falls, but hnestly the level of criticism I see coming from someone of our fellow posters is simply beyond the pale...it is as if Greg, Penny, Coryne can do no right.  I'd love to see what the rocking chair authors can produce, write and publish...simply dying to see what they can do.

And with that enough said...I've got to go and teach three classes today!

Arturo Beéche


Who ever said that that one error made the entire book not worth reading? I never said anything along those lines. I understand that no book is error-free, but I'm sorry if I start to get anxious when obvious mistakes are made. As I've said more than enough times, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A TYPO, but I personally find Lisa's excuse to be unacceptable. It is difficult to be misinformed in this case, particularly when so many sources can provide this information. And for the sake of peace, I think we should avoid bringing up FOTR. I personally believe though that there was enough content in there to warrant questioning.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #96 on: October 13, 2006, 03:26:57 PM »
When someone comes in here and says that because there was an error on a date therefore her entire workload is not worth reading.  That, to me, is a personal attack - for one mistake this person's work of more than 10 years is therefore thrown into the trash bin.

Coryne is not the only one who has suffered these sort of attacks.  Penny and Greg undergo this vitriol on a regular basis, usually from people who have never written a book, nor can ever muster the knowledge and effort to write a book, much less get it published for the love of God.

And I am speaking about generalities indeed...this is not directed to you or anyone in particular...let blame lay where it falls, but hnestly the level of criticism I see coming from someone of our fellow posters is simply beyond the pale...it is as if Greg, Penny, Coryne can do no right.  I'd love to see what the rocking chair authors can produce, write and publish...simply dying to see what they can do.

And with that enough said...I've got to go and teach three classes today!

Arturo Beéche


Who ever said that that one error made the entire book not worth reading? I never said anything along those lines. I understand that no book is error-free, but I'm sorry if I start to get anxious when obvious mistakes are made. As I've said more than enough times, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A TYPO, but I personally find Lisa's excuse to be unacceptable. It is difficult to be misinformed in this case, particularly when so many sources can provide this information. And for the sake of peace, I think we should avoid bringing up a published source. I personally believe though that there was enough content in there to warrant questioning.

It is unfortunate that my attempt to explain why there might be an error in Coryne's book is considered by another poster to be "an excuse that is unacceptable". I've got to wonder, since when did it happen that an effort to explain something to another person become an excuse? It obviously was a typo, and one that was not caught before it went to print. I've no idea how this error occured, not being Coryne or her publisher. It is entirely possible that it is not even an error she made. I stand by my tempest in a teapot opinion, but feel that everyone is entitled to their own view, as long as it is clearly understood that Mrs. Hall herself has not offered this "excuse".

And we cannot bring up that other published source because of the reasons Arturo cites in his email. There are some who post here who get unbelievably nasty about any writer who makes any mistake at all. An attempt to place matters in context and one is immediately attacked or falsely accused of favoritism. Because of this lack of moderation and reasonableness, we cannot discuss an entire book. Also because of these lacks, I cannot in good conscience invite writers to participate here. So, the entire effect is to stifle discussion and free expession. It's really sad when you think about it.

Offline Marlene

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #97 on: October 13, 2006, 04:02:43 PM »
Excuse me, Art, but ....

I am practically perfect in every way .... ::)


In all seriousness,  I am tired of the attacks on Coryne.  I have known Coryne probably longer than anyone here.  I read the Dagmar book long before it was a book --I am so happy to see Coryne published after all her hardwork.

No book is perfect ... sometimes it is the fault of the author; in other cases, the proofreader or the editor fails to pick up stuff ...   It could have been the fault of the typsetter  too ...

It is not a matter of avoiding criticism of someone who may happent to be one's acquaintance or friend.  That is not the case here.  Charlotte Zeepvat is an acquaiintance of mine.  I thinnk highly of her work.  But I am irked to no end by her ridiculos use of the Grand Prince/Princess title, which even according to the Imperial Foreign Minister's diplomatic guide is incorrect.  I also do not accept her take on KR particularly when she has stated that because he had children he was not gay.  People who know very little about human sexuality should not make statements of the kind.

In the past I have disagreed with statements made by other authors, like Greg King, Penny Wilson, Marlen Koenig and yes even Coryne Hall.  All I consider at the very least friends, if not very good acquaintances.

The point here is the way in which criticism is metted out by some of our fellow posters...critisim which goes beyond disagreeing with someone's take and lands into a flat out vendetta style attack and open blasting of someone's efforts to research, write and publish a book.  In years past I described these sort of critics as nothing more than "bitter" rocking chair writers, who can barely write their signature on a check and yet blast away at someone who has undertaken the endeavour to write a full book or an article.  And you know what, the more I see this the more I am convinced that rocking chair authors are safely ensconced in their realm of criticism and will never get off their lazy behind and actually share something positive, illuminating and intersting with the rest of us.

Surely, there will be many in this discussion who are going to reply to my post with vitriol and even a personal attack.  However, as someone who has authored more than 50 articles, authored three books, and coauthored two, somene who has published six books now, I have a stake in this.  I also have developed a rather thick skin when it comes to unkind and uncivil attacks and always mention so to those adventurous people like Coryne Hall, who actually dare to sit down and write more than a ripping of someone else's work.

All in all...books include mistakes.  Yes they do, even mine. Marlene has already accepted the same. We are not perfect.  What makes us different from rocking chair writers is that we dare put our thoughts to paper in a positive manner, that we share with the reading world what we've researched and studied, that we care enough about this topic of ours to publish our findings. And if someone doesn't like it, or takes exception to my words, well tampis, but entre nous I am simply sickened by these personal attacks on hardworking authors which are tinged, in some cases, with faintly covered envy.

There...I've said enough!

Arturo Beéche

PS: To all those of you who emailed and urged that I reply to this, thanks, I share your opinion and here it is posted...enjoy reading and relishishing the avalanche that is about to rain on me.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2009, 12:16:22 AM »
I finally got a chance to read this book. It's a great book, with lots of info. Mathilde was really a very interesting woman though rather self centered who lived quite a life. She reminds me a bit of Marie Feordorovna, Nicholas II's mother. I guess that's because Mathilde was a people person and very much into society and she was pragmatic and practical, and lived a long life- the same is true of Nicholas's mother. But her lifestyle  was very different than Marie F who never would have had a lover. Mathilde truly loved Andrei though, and Nicholas too although she was a bit of a social climber, who knew the advantages to being a Grand Duke's mistress, indeed as this bio says she never truly was in love with Grand Duke Sergei M, her second lover ( after Nicholas).  She stuck by Andrei even after the Revolution, married him and they spent years in financial circumstances far from riches and palaces together. Mathilde loved riches, but when she didn't have them, she still was a survivor and had the same attitude towards life. She was a survivor, and reading about how she ran her ballet school to support herself and her son and Andrei no matter what in the last few decades of her life proves the strength she had. Some survivors of the Revolution were forever haunted by it. I'm sure in some ways, she was. But, she proved that long after the riches and palaces were long gone, she still had the same spirit. You have to admire that.

Offline historylover

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2009, 06:29:24 PM »
I agree, but there is some suggestion that Mathilde was arms smuggling which was very unethical! What do people think of that?


Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2009, 02:25:20 AM »
I agree, but there is some suggestion that Mathilde was arms smuggling which was very unethical! What do people think of that?



I think that a suggestion is gossip, and I would be very careful about gossiping without some actual proof. That's what this people thinks. (The people who still will not ask writer friends to post here due to poor behavior of some forum members.)

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #101 on: April 27, 2009, 01:15:10 AM »
There was  a lot of gossip about the Romanovs and people they knew like Mathilde, during World War I. Alexandra was said to be a German spy and Rasputin's lover, things we know are not true today. Of course Alexandra was targeted not only due to foreign birth, but unpopularity with the country. On the other hand, Mathilde was of Polish descent and grew up in Russia, and was thus not a foreigner, really. But Mathilde was wealthy and associated with the Romanovs, so this could give impetus to gossip. Coryne Hall never says in her book whether or Mathilde actually did this, just mentions the speculation at the time, thus it isn't proven. Alexandra mentioned this gossip- speculation about Mathilde in her letters to Nicholas during World War I as mentioned in Coryne Hall's book, so she seemed to have believed it, of course I doubt Mathilde was one of Alexandra's favorite people. But Alexandra herself was a target of  untrue gossip.

Offline historylover

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2009, 06:39:01 PM »

I agree that Coryne mentioned that this was speculation, but she did have some evidence that seemed to back it up, if I remember correctly?  I wonder if this rumour was the reason why the Bolsheviks chose Mathilde's house as their HQ?

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #103 on: May 04, 2009, 10:37:00 PM »
Coryne Hall mentions that as possibility, that's true- of course, Mathilde was hated anyway as a symbol of the Romanov regime. I didn't look up what her evidence was in the foot notes, or what she might have based it on.

Offline historylover

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Re: Imperial Dancer by Coryne Hall
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2009, 07:56:59 PM »
Choosing a house of a former ballerina for their HQ truly indicates how uncultured the Bolsheviks were, I think.