Survivor theories -- a western phenomenon?

[Sarushka]

In one of my brief forays into the survial boards, I ran across this quote by Belochka:

Indeed the entire pathetic charade enhanced by western authorship has run its course. The less than imperious performance has received its final curtain call long ago. There can be no applause, only respectful silence for all those who were massacred on that horrendous night in July.

I'm intrigued by the idea that the fascination with Romanov survival may be primarily western (which I take to mean North America and western Europe). I'm curious now as to how other cultures view the notion that any of the Romanovs might have survived. In particular, how do native Russians regard Anna Anderson and the various other pretenders?

[Romanov_fan]

Well, I've read that there were plenty of eastern European pretenders, although none in Russia obviously, although in later years some appeared out of the woodwork, like Vasily Filatov, although that could be his family.  I think the whole world over, there is an interest in this matter, and if you read royal history in many countries, there is always many pretenders. To my mind, there is always an interest in royal survivals of this type- in Russia, during the time of troubles in the early 17th century, there were many false Dmirtris who claimed be some prince who had died mysteriously, I believe. That shows this phenomenon transends time and culture. If this phenomena in the case of the Romanovs is specifically western, ( I am not sure), then one reason could be that there was scarcely an opportunity to consider this matter in the Russia of the Communists. Had it not been for that, to my mind there would have been more interest in possible survival, or not.  This a great idea for a thread!

[helenazar]

I don't know if Russians really care about Anna Anderson or other pretenders, but there were quite a few Russian claimants for all members of the imperial family, including those mentioned on some of the threads here. Don't forget, this isn't just a 20th century phenomenon for the last imperial family, this started long ago, so applied to Peter II, Dmitri, Ivan, the "daughter" of Elizaveta Petrovna, etc. (see the Imperial Claimants thread).

And no, a fascination with "survivors" is not just a western phenomenon, it is a human phenomenon it seems. Japan is just one place that seems fascinated with Anna Anderson. Here is an interesting article written by one of AP members on this exact topic:

http://www.geocities.com/mushkah/LegendAnastasiaJapan2.html

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, once I thought that there were no Russian claimants, then I read in some book that there were, and I was so surprised about that, I nearly dropped the book. I thought because of Communism, there would not be, although certainly that fact put a damper on claimants, etc. Certainly, fascination with the IF and possible survival is very much world wide, and goes back far, into the lifetime of the IF, I think there were even some claimants during their lifetime because there was such a haziness surrounding whether they were dead or alive near the end of their lives. I read that Tatiana saw some newspaper or something, sometime after the abdication, and she saw there was some person claiming to be her. I am not sure if it was a foreign or Russian newspaper, and I've forgotten which book it was, but if anybody knows what I am refering to, and could post that reference, please do.

[helenazar]

I thought because of Communism, there would not be, although certainly that fact put a damper on claimants, etc.

Delusions of grandeur are universal, communism or no communism! It has little to do with fascination with royalty per say, if not royalty it would  be something else like movie stars (as there have been) or alien abductions. Such is the human nature (or "human pathology", as the case may be), alas...   

[Lemur]

I thought because of Communism, there would not be, although certainly that fact put a damper on claimants, etc.

Delusions of grandeur are universal, communism or no communism! It has little to do with fascination with royalty per say, if not royalty it would  be something else like movie stars (as there have been) or alien abductions. Such is the human nature (or "human pathology", as the case may be), alas...   

Very true, it doesn't have to be royalty! There have also been rumors of rock and roll singers Elvis, Tupac Shakur and Jim Morrison still being alive, and several old west outlaws, like Jesse James, Billy the Kid and Butch Cassidy, all had claimants.

[Romanov_fan]

What I meant was, not that there would not be claimants due to Communism, but that maybe they were be more hesitant to parade their claims around, at least in Russia, because the goverment would not look down on it nicely. What does everyone think? But there still were claimants in Russia, agreed.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Human nature = maximum gain for minimum effort
Royalty = loadsa money
Dead royalty with obscurity surrounding death = loadsa money up for grabs from general populace willing to fake being said royal personage

I think survivor theories in general are, as Helen already said, a human nature thing.  There's no real national divide.  People in general are attracted to opportunities that offer them a taste of the high life, fame and monetary gain, and what does claiming to be a royal bring you? All three.  You've just got to add being slightly deranged, and you've got a survival claimant in a nutshell.

Rachel
xx

[Sarushka]

Well, then, I wonder if anyone agrees with Belochka's sentiment that the "charade" of survivorship has been "enhanced by western authorship"?

[helenazar]

Well, then, I wonder if anyone agrees with Belochka's sentiment that the "charade" of survivorship has been "enhanced by western authorship"?

This phenomenon hasn't been originated by, but yes it has been enhanced by it. I am not sure about just "western authorship", maybe "authorship" in general - western or not - the so-called "authors" looking to cash in on individuals who are either con artists, or mentally ill.

[Romanov_fan]

Most of the time authors do cash in on things like this, much like many of the survivors hoped to do, with the alleged inheiritance they could claim. The bottom line motivation seems to be money, etc. I don't think the phenomena orginated with any authors though, as there certainly weren't authors in 17th century Russia writing about the false Dmirtri, or authors with books about some of the people who claimed to be the Princes in the tower surviving in England. Maybe it has been enhanced a bit, although I think a better word is publicized, that it has become more wideLy known, but books or no books survivors there would have been, and they would be interesting to people, if not as widely known.

[Annie]

the so-called "authors" looking to cash in on individuals who are either con artists, or mentally ill.

That makes the author a 'con artist' too in a way. The more he/she encourages and endorses the claimant's story, the more he/she perpetuates the story, the more interesting he/she makes it, the more he/she is using people who are falling for the bunk.

[Romanov_fan]

Yes, it seems so. Certainly, survivors are perhaps an appeal to people wondering about what ifs, or perhaps who don't want to believe in a tragic ending or death, but want to continue the story, and that's why some people might believe in this. Sensible people ( otherwise), have been known to support claimants, although sometimes the alleged survivors and their supporters were just plain weird.

[Annie]

Yes, it seems so. Certainly, survivors are perhaps an appeal to people wondering about what ifs, or perhaps who don't want to believe in a tragic ending or death, but want to continue the story, and that's why some people might believe in this.

My son was just telling me a few days ago it had to be because some people just can't accept that what happened was so bad, and that there was no good in it, nothing to make it okay, and such a waste. All those pretty young girls, everyone brutally killed, and that was the end. No happy ending, nothing of value to make of it. Also he said some people subconciously can't accept that some bad things just happen and there's nothing you can do to change it, because that would leave THEM feeling vulnerable and scared. There had to be a way out, and if there wasn't, invent one and cling to it. But what good does it do if it's fake? I don't get it!

It kind of reminds me of another site I go to, a Star Wars site. Fans write fanfiction 'alternate ending' stories for Revenge of the Sith, because it ended so sadly and tragically it really bugs you. So there are now stories where the characters live happily ever after, and that they saved themselves before their tragic mistakes, and everything turns out all right in the end. Maybe this is how some claimant fans feel about the IF. But the difference is, Star Wars is a fictional story so changing it doesn't really matter, but changing history is bad, and a disservice to everyone.

[Belochka]

There is a distinct absence of soviet authorship bothering with the false claims of AA when she was alive. The only time that she was mentioned was only recently in the last few years - well after the collapse of the soviet system - as part of a cohort of pretenders.

The AA phenomenon was conceived not in Russia but in Germany and that myth was transported across the ocean into the United States where a few authors took up the cause.

With the advancement of scientific technology the game was finally revealed, the facade was over, and only those western authors remained to hopefully explain why they got it so wrong.

Margarita