Author Topic: Full title of the Tsesarevich  (Read 8248 times)

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Zesarewitsch

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Full title of the Tsesarevich
« on: November 25, 2006, 04:40:17 PM »
Hello,

does anybody know the full title of the Tsesarevich?

I found the following one:
"Его Императорское Высочество Государь Наследник Цесаревич и Великий Князь"
"His Imperial Highness the Successor Tsesarevich and Grand Duke"
"Seine Kaiserliche Hoheit der Zesarewitsch-Thronfolger und Großfürst"

Baby_Tsarevich

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2006, 05:14:41 PM »
In the past, we have discussed this a few time.
Just look around in different threads under this subject.

-Anya
(btw: Welcome to the Forum!)
 :D

Zesarewitsch

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2006, 05:24:27 PM »
Dear Baby Tsarevich, thank you for your welcoming me in that forum. ;)
May I ask where I can find these threads? :)

Offline Belochka

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2006, 06:00:45 PM »
Hello,

does anybody know the full title of the Tsesarevich?


Welcome Zesarewitsch!

The full title is:


Его Императорское Высочество Наследник Цесаревич и Великий Князь Алексей Николаевич

Margarita  :)


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Zesarewitsch

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2006, 06:08:08 PM »
Thank you very much! ;)

Baby_Tsarevich

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2006, 06:38:27 PM »
Thanks for posting that, I was interested myself.
 ;)

And you're welcome Zesarewitsch.

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 12:29:27 PM »
Alexei was given the titles at his brith (i think his titles and etc goes like this):

His Imperial Highess Sovereign Heir and Tsarevich, Grand Duke Alexei Nikolaievich of Russia, Hetman of All Cossacks, Knight of the Order of St. Andrew, Head of the Siberian Infantry, of the Horse Battalion Infantry, and of the Cadet Corps.

In English, since i don't know much Russian (only in prayer, and "Da" which (i think means) "yes" in Russian, is all i know! lol).
« Last Edit: November 26, 2006, 12:31:30 PM by Mandie, the Gothic Empress »

Baby_Tsarevich

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 03:16:31 PM »
Poor kid, that's one long name.
 :o

grandduchess_42

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 04:11:07 PM »
Alexei was given the titles at his brith (i think his titles and etc goes like this):

His Imperial Highess Sovereign Heir and Tsarevich, Grand Duke Alexei Nikolaievich of Russia, Hetman of All Cossacks, Knight of the Order of St. Andrew, Head of the Siberian Infantry, of the Horse Battalion Infantry, and of the Cadet Corps.

In English, since i don't know much Russian (only in prayer, and "Da" which (i think means) "yes" in Russian, is all i know! lol).

aw thast a mouthful!
even at birth he was a knight?

is the order of St. Andrew a monastary?
it sounds like a convent or somthing!

welcome to the forum!
Zesarewitsch

you can find threads by going back pages... their are numbers at the top that will go back
or you could try the search bar at the very top of the fourm!
you can type in a key word, or a name!

Zesarewitsch

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2006, 05:17:17 PM »
Thanks to everybody for your answers! ;)

DanielB

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2006, 10:48:54 PM »
Margarita is right about Alexei’s official title : since Emperor Paul 1st , who was the first to write a Succession Law (in 1797), the Heir to the Throne's official title was: “Heir, Tsesarevich, Grand Duke and Imperial Highness” (see the 1886 Law on the Imperial Family, #19.1 or the 1906 Fundamental Law, #144.1) . As the older title of Tsarevich could mean any son of the Tsar, a new title - Tsesarevich - was to be used solely by the Heir to the Throne. Official documents referred to Alexei as “His Imperial Highness the Heir Tsesarevich and Grand Duke Alexis Nicholaevich” (Ego Imperatorskoe Vysochestvo Naslednik Tsesarevich i Velikiy Knyaz’ Aleksei Nikolaevich), which should be pronounced somewhat like – stressed syllables underlined: Yevo Imperatorskoye Vissochestva Naslyednik Tsyesaryevich i  Viliki Kniass Alyeksei Nikolayevich).

As for the title of “Gosudar” (usually translated as “Sovereign”), it wasn’t part of the official (legal)  title. I have seen this title used in some documents regarding Alexei, but it was usually reserved to the Emperor and Empresses. Official or not, it seems Alexei liked it as he once made a fuss about it. In her memoirs, Dr. Botkin’s daughter Tatiana mentions that on one of his brother’s portfolios of drawings he sent to the young Tsarevich Alexei, Gleb Botkin had omitted the word Sovereign (Gosudar) in his dedication and written “To H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich and Grand Duke Alexis Nicolaevich”. According to Tatiana Botkin, the Tsarevich insisted that Gleb Botkin use the more courteous form of address “H.I.H. the Sovereign Heir Tsesarevich and Grand Duke...”(Gosudar Naslednik i Veliki Knyaz).

I might add that, except in official documents, the Tsarevich was usually referred to as the “Heir Tsesarevich”, even in writing, and that the less educated Russians refered to the him simply as ”The Heir” (Naslednik).

Mandie mentions chivalry orders and military titles Alexei held. They weren’t part of the official title of the Heir to the Throne but were rather honours bestowed by the Emperor. On the day he was born, Alexei was named Ataman of all Cossack Troops (cossack title for a military chief ). On the same day he was also named “chief” (shef)  (similar to the British “colonel-in-chief”) of the following regiments:
- Atamansky (Cossack Cavalry) Guards Regiment of  His Imperial Highness the Heir Tsesarevich (by tradition, as Ataman of all Cossacks,  the Heir to the Throne was chief of this regiment, but only until he became emperor);
- Finlandsky (Infantry) Guards Regiment;
-   - 51st Litovsky Infantry Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich,
- 12th Eastern Siberian Rifle Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich.

At the same time he was enrolled in all regiments of which his father, mother and grand-mother were Colonel-in-Chief at the time.
 

DanielB

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2006, 10:51:08 PM »
As Alexei grew up, his father  the Emperor named him chief of more military units and establishments. The last official list, published by His Majesty’s Military Chancellery for 1917, names the following (when I could find them, I added the dates (old style) on which he was named chief): 
 
- Konstantinovsky Artillery School;
- 1st Nerchinsky Trans-Baikal Cossack Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (1916);
- 1st Trans-Baikal Cossack (Artillery) Battery of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (on 05-06-1910. his father’s birthday);
- 12th Siberian Rifle Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (07-30-1904);
- 1st Orenburgsky Cossack Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (02-26-1914);
- 14th Gruzinsky Grenadier Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (01-09-1912); 
- 89th Belomorsky Infantry Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (1916);
- Horse-Grenadier Guards Regiment (06-13-1910);
- 5th Kievsky Grenadier Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (06-13-1912);
- 43rd (later16th)  Tversky Dragoon Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (on his 3rd birthday: 07-30-1907);
- 1st Volgsky Terek Cossack Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (1916);
- 2nd Don Cossack Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (01-31-1914);
- Tashkent Cadet Corps of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (on 10-05-1904, his namesday);
- 3rd Kuban Plastun (Cossack Infantry) Batalion of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (1915);
- Alexis Military School (02-02-1906) formerly known as the Moscow Military School;
- Naval (Cadet) Corps (Morskoi Korpus) of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (11-08-1914);
- Moskovsky (Infantry) Guards Regiment (on 11-08-1910, the regimental holiday);
- 206th Saliansky Infantry Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (also on his 3rd birthday);
- Novocherkassk Cossack Military School;
- Atamansky (Cossack Cavalry) Guards Regiment of  H. I. H. the Heir Tsesarevich (07-30-1904);
- 4th Guards Horse Artillery Battery of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich  (01-25-1906);   
- 51st Litovsky Infantry Regiment of H.I.H. the Heir Tsesarevich (07-30-1904);
- Finlandsky (Infantry) Guards Regiment (07-30-1904).

Indeed he became a knight at an early age: not at his birth but a few days later, when he was baptized. According to law, as all other grand dukes, the Heir to the Throne received the insignias from the following Russian orders of chivalry at his baptism: Order of St. Andrew, Order of St. Alexander Nevsky, Order of the White Eagle, Order of St. Anna (1st class) and Order of St. Stanislas (1st class). Later the Tsesarevich also received a number of Foreign orders and medals along with some Russian medals.

Nessa_Ancalimon

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2006, 06:47:16 PM »
Jeez, that's one heck of a title right there, that's a mouthful! (And just reading all of Nicholas' titles in N&A made my eyes hurt). And all those military titles! That's quite a bit for such a young boy. Wowsers.

grandduchess_42

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2006, 12:07:34 PM »
Im sure when they went out in public they didn't say all his titles

what title was traditionaly said while they were out? or being introduced

DanielB

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Re: Full title of the Tsesarevich
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 06:41:39 PM »
Alexis’ honorary military appointments weren’t part of his official title. On very formal occasions he would have been introduced as « His Imperial Highness the Heir Tsesarevich and Grand Duke Alexis Nicolaevich » and addressed as « Your Imperial Highness ». But within the Household he was addressed simply as « Alexis Nicolaevich ». At a young age, Alexis was conscious of his rank and importance as Heir to the Throne and at times could make a fuss about it. On the other hand, his sisters weren’t accustomed to their official titles, as Baroness Buxhoeveden’s recalls in their mother’s biography:

« Their rank meant very little to them, and they felt ill at ease when they were treated ceremoniously. Once at a committee I had to address "my President," the Grand Duchess Tatiana, officially, and naturally began, " May it please Your Imperial Highness." She looked at me with astonishment, and when I sat down again beside her 1 was rewarded by a violent kick under the table and a whispered " Are you crazy to speak to me like that ? " In common with all the Household, I called the Emperor's daughters, in the Russian fashion, by their names and patronymic, and she thought it quite absurdly formal for me to have given her her full title ! I had to appeal to the Empress to persuade her that on official occasions it was really necessary. »