Author Topic: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder  (Read 278617 times)

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Offline GD_Sasha

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #795 on: June 16, 2006, 10:11:47 AM »
Absolutely no to both of the questions.

David_Pritchard

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #796 on: June 16, 2006, 04:53:55 PM »
No survivors of the 1918 Ekaterinburg massacre.

No to Anna Anderson being any member of the Imperial Family or the Imperial Suite.

[ch1044][ch1072][ch1074][ch1080][ch1076]

Offline Belochka

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #797 on: June 17, 2006, 05:08:50 AM »
Quote
No survivors of the 1918 Ekaterinburg massacre.

No to Anna Anderson being any member of the Imperial Family or the Imperial Suite.

[ch1044][ch1072][ch1074][ch1080][ch1076]

[size=10]It is extraordinary that pathetic myths have evolved and continue to rotate in never ending spirals and are prefered because the horrendous massacre of innocents is more difficult to reconcile.[/size]

[ch1052][ch1072][ch1088][ch1075][ch1072][ch1088][ch1080][ch1090][ch1072] [/color]


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Offline Annie

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #798 on: June 17, 2006, 06:52:15 AM »
It's very sad some people keep turning the tragedy of this family into a fun game and circus. What's worse is when people (well one in particular) keep accusing us of 'you just don't want it to be her! ' What? It would have been so great to have someone survive and live to tell the tale, but it didn't happen, so why keep pretending just because that's more fun? It's disrespectful to their memories.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #799 on: June 18, 2006, 11:40:16 PM »
Quote
It's very sad some people keep turning the tragedy of this family into a fun game and circus. What's worse is when people (well one in particular) keep accusing us of 'you just don't want it to be her! ' What? It would have been so great to have someone survive and live to tell the tale, but it didn't happen, so why keep pretending just because that's more fun? It's disrespectful to their memories.

[size=10]Indeed the entire pathetic charade enhanced by western authorship has run its course. The less than imperious performance has received its final curtain call long ago. There can be no applause, only respectful silence for all those who were massacred on that horrendous night in July.[/size]  :'(


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ChatNoir

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #800 on: June 19, 2006, 12:07:03 AM »
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  [size=10]Indeed the entire pathetic charade enhanced by western authorship has run its course. The less than imperious performance has received its final curtain call long ago. There can be no applause, only respectful silence for all those who were massacred on that horrendous night in July

Ain't that the truth.
And when you find the remnants of those two bodies, you will let me know, won't you.

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #801 on: June 19, 2006, 02:51:55 AM »
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And when you find the remnants of those two bodies, you will let me know, won't you.

ChatNoir

 
[size=10]If you are attempting to be discourteous you have succceeded. Your disrespectful tone has been noted, and fails to uplift this discussion.[/size][/color]


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Offline EmmyLee

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #802 on: June 20, 2006, 01:11:45 PM »
Might as well pop in and give my answers, although they concur with many of the other members of this forum. I say 'NO' to both questions.

Offline granduchess_leah

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #803 on: October 29, 2006, 06:28:04 AM »
well tell you the truth i aint quite sure  :P cause no one nows if anastasia surrived or alexie cause there is no clues  :(to weather or not anyone surived ....

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #804 on: October 29, 2006, 11:57:45 AM »
One of the areas I have studied about the Imperial Family and their murder is the stories of those who claim to be survivors of Ekaterinburg, and of course more recently, the descendants of survivor claimants. While some of the stories are outright ridiculous, others are interesting and compelling, all on their own. I thought it might be interesting to discuss these on a thread of their own, but a thread with definite rules so that discussion can continue:

1. While it is more likely that all the family perished at Ekaterinburg, the main reasons for survivor stories appears to be the fact that the killings were undertaken in secret and the fact that the Koptyaki grave was short two bodies, and that both of these facts were somewhat known.

2. This discussion is not about the murders themselves, which has its own area, the Final Chapter. Nor is it a place for claimant/claimant families, or which claimant is the "true heir". This topic has its own area, For Claimants. This topic is for the Suvivor Stories themselves. For example, AA's story was that she was rescued by a guard, transported by cart, went to Bucharest, etc. The story itself could be discussed here, but not AA's DNA tests, which have several threads of their own. I will delete without warning or explanation anything OT to the stories.

3. Please remain respectful of one another, the survivor stories, and those relating them. If you consider the whole issue of survivors impossible, ridiculous, or outside of your religion, do not presume that everyone else feels the way you do or that this gives you permission to be disrespectul to the beliefs of others. I will delete without warning or explanation anything I consider disrespectful.

Anything more that needs to be added to our rules?

Offline lexi4

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #805 on: October 29, 2006, 08:11:41 PM »
One of the areas I have studied about the Imperial Family and their murder is the stories of those who claim to be survivors of Ekaterinburg, and of course more recently, the descendants of survivor claimants. While some of the stories are outright ridiculous, others are interesting and compelling, all on their own. I thought it might be interesting to discuss these on a thread of their own, but a thread with definite rules so that discussion can continue:

1. While it is more likely that all the family perished at Ekaterinburg, the main reasons for survivor stories appears to be the fact that the killings were undertaken in secret and the fact that the Koptyaki grave was short two bodies, and that both of these facts were somewhat known.

2. This discussion is not about the murders themselves, which has its own area, the Final Chapter. Nor is it a place for claimant/claimant families, or which claimant is the "true heir". This topic has its own area, For Claimants. This topic is for the Suvivor Stories themselves. For example, AA's story was that she was rescued by a guard, transported by cart, went to Bucharest, etc. The story itself could be discussed here, but not AA's DNA tests, which have several threads of their own. I will delete without warning or explanation anything OT to the stories.

3. Please remain respectful of one another, the survivor stories, and those relating them. If you consider the whole issue of survivors impossible, ridiculous, or outside of your religion, do not presume that everyone else feels the way you do or that this gives you permission to be disrespectul to the beliefs of others. I will delete without warning or explanation anything I consider disrespectful.

Anything more that needs to be added to our rules?

Lisa,
Thank you for starting this thread. I look forward to the discussion as I do have an interest in the survivor stories.  So count me as a participant and I will post more later on stories I have read etc. If I am notably absent, it is because my daughter-in-law is due to give birth to my first grandchild any day.
Thank you again for starting this discussion, I think it will be fun.
Lexi
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #806 on: October 29, 2006, 11:23:42 PM »
My most interesting survivor case came to me from a man living in the Midwestern U.S. He was certain that his mother had been Grand Duchess Tatiana. I approached the whole thing with a reasonable amount of skepticism. For instance, when he gave me his and his sister's dates of birth, "Tatiana's" age would have been rather old for having children. However, there were two things about this case that I found interesting. The photos he provided were nothing short of amazing - and I have never been one who saw anything of the IF in Anna Anderson, for example. But this woman looked incredibly like what an older Tatiana would have looked like.

The second thing is that, when this claim surfaced, it was the only survivor claim that matched up with the forensic evidence. I thought it might be worth some time to investigate. This woman told a story of being rescued by an tsarist officer who had been evacuated to Ekaterinburg. He was able to search the Fiat truck when it broke down and the burial party left it. He found Alexei with a pulse and offloaded him - and then he found the sister. Somehow, they lost track of her brother, but he was able to get her to a peasant's dwelling while she recovered. They never were able to find the brother. They made their escape via Ufa and eventually went to the Balkans.

The gist of this story is repeated in Eugenia Smith's Anastasia "biography". Apparently the sister hired Smith to front for her and getting the "true story" told. She also wanted to discredit Anna Anderson. The sister made her way to Chicago where she married a well do to man and had two children - a son and a daughter. She even appears briefly in an independent film that was released in 1950. She apparently had an interesting life both here and in Europe and died of a cardiac ailment in 1969. She related most of her story to her son in the latter years of her life. His sister - the alleged Tatiana's daughter - never believed these stories and refuses to have DNA testing done.

As I related before, I encouraged the man to proceed with DNA testing. He had taken the extraordinary step of obtaining a blood sample from Princess Katherine of Yugoslavia (Victoria - Alice of Hesse - Victoria Milford Haven - Alice of Greece - Theodora of Baden - Margarita of Yugoslavia - Katherine de Silva) ahead of the Duke of Edinburgh's sample which was eventually used to identify the remains of the Imperial Family. This sample, by the way, has an mtDNA sequence identical to that of the DOE's - not a surprise to anyone except conspiracy buffs. And, as I also said before, the son's mtDNA did not match the Victorian sequence. At this point, I felt I had hit a dead end.

Then, the son said he was not his mother's natural son - which seemed really curious, because if he knew this, why did he even bother to get himself tested? He was going to try to work on the sister getting tested, who still wants to remain private - which is why I am mentioning no one by name. I saw a picture of the son's grandson who is a hockey player who looks just like - Nicholas II! (Which would not make sense if you are following this story at all). I have heard nothing from this family for years, but I do have his written consent to exhume his mother's body, obtain a sample, and if she is the missing grand duchess, repatriate her remains to Russia.

The movie in which his mother appeared was released on DVD this summer and I intend to order it from Amazon. It's David Bradley's Julius Caesar and as soon as I see it, I'll see if the mother still resembles TN.

Offline stepan

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #807 on: October 31, 2006, 05:56:48 PM »
Thank you for this story Lisa !  Very interesting. I find the claimant´s connection to Eugenia Smith specially fascinating and I hope it will be possible to find out more about this woman.

Offline skirt

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #808 on: November 06, 2006, 08:02:30 PM »
Oh this is a good one Lisa! Any chance we can see some comparison photos?
"Tatiana's" age wouldnt really matter much if he was adopted..
I still cannot imagine someone going through all of that effort to get DNA tests done knowing that they were an adopted child- I'm sticking with the 'I'm so sure my mommy was GD Tatiana- geez I must be adoped!!" theory..

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #809 on: November 06, 2006, 11:26:02 PM »
Oh this is a good one Lisa! Any chance we can see some comparison photos?
"Tatiana's" age wouldnt really matter much if he was adopted..
I still cannot imagine someone going through all of that effort to get DNA tests done knowing that they were an adopted child- I'm sticking with the 'I'm so sure my mommy was GD Tatiana- geez I must be adoped!!" theory..

Since I don't own the photos, I have concerns about posting them given the woman's daughter wants (and is entitled to) her privacy. I showed Greg and Penny the photos years ago and I believe John Kendrick has seen them too. If any of them have their emails, perhaps they can send them to me and I could forward you the email privately.