Author Topic: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder  (Read 265628 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Binky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #915 on: March 20, 2007, 06:11:51 AM »
This stuff is all very interesting.  I think its really important that we know all dabout those murders because they must of suffered so much and we can't understand Russia history when we don't know how they were all killed.  I wonder who had to clean up that room because when I drop eggs on the floor its' really hard to get it up without going everywhere and I bet brains and blood all mixed up wiggled more and was a whole lot messier.  I heard Catherine the Great fell off her toilet when she died.  I bet that was a big mess too and some servant had to clean it up and Alexander II bled all over the stairs and furniture when his leg was hanging off.  Russian history is real interesting in how they all died.

Offline J_Kendrick

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #916 on: March 20, 2007, 10:34:26 AM »
We shouldn't forget that, after shooting at the IF, the murderers used the bayonets to stab them. I doubt very much that someone could "resist" the temptation to stab Alexei. So, if the bullet didn't kill him, the bayonets would do it.

Neither should we ever forget this most important of facts:

The only evidence that exists of those events in that half-cellar room at Ipatiev is the highly questionable testimony of the murderers themselves.

... and murderers throughout history have never been known for telling the truth.

Offline Binky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #917 on: March 20, 2007, 11:53:16 AM »
That's right.  I bet it was all those people who say they were Anasatasia and Alexei who are all telling the truth not the murderers. 

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #918 on: March 20, 2007, 12:28:53 PM »
I've been trying to figure out where this woman fits in the story of Michael and Natasha -- but she seems not to fit anywhere.  Off the top of my head -- so my dates might be slightly wrong -- Natasha and Michael met in 1908.  Their son George was born in 1910, and his birth was not hidden or otherwise shrouded in secrecy.  Masters mentioned that George was Nicolina's "little brother," which means Nicolina would had to have been born sometime in the year-and-a-half or two years between M&N meeting and George's birth.  I haven't had time to consult the Crawford's book, but perhaps someone could -- and let us know what M&N were up to in those years?

I do believe that Nicholas and Michael remained on good terms until the time of M&N's marriage, which was in 1912.  I suppose their relationship may have been strained because of Michael's affair with the wife of a brother officer and all the attendant scandal -- but there really seems to have been no serious breach until 1912, and so no need to name "Nicolina" to please NII. 

Also -- by the time Countess Brassova died, she was terribly, terribly impoverished.  REALLY poor.  There could have been no legacy of any size left for anyone anywhere.

Now, Natasha's daughter from her first marriage, Tata Mamontov, married (I think) three times.  She had two daughters only: Pauline Grey and Alexandra Majolier.  George Brassov, of course, died tragically young in a motoring accident in France in 1931.  Nothing about this family seems to have been hidden or secreted away -- so why was the existence of this "Nicolina" hidden?

I'd really like to hear more about the story, but its veracity seems unlikely at this point.  Perhaps a letter to the Grey/Majolier connections would answer some of these questions and clarify this situation for you, Masters.



Asking key questions is the real key to discover if Masters is telling us a true story about a real friend and Penny has asked some important questions.

Asking Bear if I believe in  Easter Bunnies is not very productive, and, has nothing what's  so ever to do with Masters or his / her  [?] friend and the information he / she  wants us to believe.

Since I know only what are in the two books I have about the uncrown Tsar Michael and his wife,  I have to depend on those of you who do know about these two people, and, so I hope you ask  the right questions and do so with respect to all.

Remember,  I don't care where truth takes me,  I am just enjoying the journey.

AGRBear

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Binky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #919 on: March 20, 2007, 12:40:36 PM »
Me too.  The journey is always fun and I like all the weird places the truth takes people here especially those places where no one else ever went before.

Offline Tsarfan

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1848
  • Miss the kings, but not the kingdoms
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #920 on: March 20, 2007, 12:45:00 PM »
Out of the mouths of babes . . . .

Offline Eddie_uk

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2925
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #921 on: March 20, 2007, 01:10:35 PM »
I bet it was all those people who say they were Anasatasia and Alexei who are all telling the truth not the murderers. 

What? So we have approx 20 Anastasias and 20 Alexeis all telling the truth!!! Hilarious. ;D

Kendrick what about the bodies that have been found!!! That's evidence!!!!

Not one member survived. Sad but obvious.
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
  • Another Anastasia claimant; the ears match exactly
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #922 on: March 20, 2007, 01:13:00 PM »
There are a lot of 'woulds' and 'ifs' floating about on this thread.

Yurovsky says he shot Alexei twice through the head because he was still alive after the first volley. Yurovsky also said he burned the bodies of Alexandra and Alexei, then changes his mind to Demidova and Alexei. We now know that isn't true, because we have the physical evidence to prove it (ie, it is not Alexandra nor Demidova who is missing from the mass grave).

Therefore, we cannot take witness statements such as those from Yurovsky as proof of what did, should, could or would have happened.

All we know is that Alexei was never seen again after the execution. We also know that he had haemophilia. We know that circumstancial evidence (buttons and I believe items from his pockets) were found in the bottom of the Three Brothers Mine, which points to his corpse being there with the others. From this evidence we can deduce that Alexei was most probably killed with the rest of his family. Was he shot in the head in the manner that Yurovsky claimed? Was he still alive after the first round of executions, or simply performing the involuntary actions the body produces after death? We'll probably never know for sure. If we find the skeleton, we'll be able to know, if it's in good enough condition, whether a bullet did pass through his skull. But that's it. Nothing more conclusive than that.

More importantly, a lack of physical evidence does NOT therefore lead to those claiming to be Alexei in the 20s, 30s and so on to be telling the truth. I am hoping Binky is being sarcastic, but you never can tell on this board.

Rachel
xx
'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
  • Another Anastasia claimant; the ears match exactly
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #923 on: March 20, 2007, 01:27:23 PM »
Ok, I haven't been around for a while, so perhaps I'm getting confused...is Masters claiming that Michael and Natasha had a 'secret' child named Nicolina who then lived with her mother and brother in exile after the revolution?

This board gets sillier and sillier. If you want to write fiction, do it on the Having Fun board.

Rachel
xx
'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #924 on: March 20, 2007, 02:46:59 PM »
I think almost everything in history is made up by people who have this really big conspiracy to fool us. I'm glad there are people like you who know the truth and will tell it to us though because we wouldn't know what really happened. 

Pinky, I never thought of it this way... I'm glad too.

Offline Louis_Charles

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1498
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #925 on: March 20, 2007, 04:37:28 PM »
Bear, dear:

If you don't want public cracks about your gullibility, don't make public cracks warning people that some of the people who post are Blue Meanies. If Masters needs to be warned against people who will scrutinize the story of Little Nicky, then he may as well know that you believe in the Easter Bunny.

Meanwhile . . . I think that Helen, Penny and others have raised serious objections to your timeline/story/memoir/anecdote, Masters, and the way to deal with it is not to engage in some kind of mental sleight-of-hand: "Everything you people know is wrong, these are not the droids you are looking for, you don't need to see Nicolina's papers."  Alas, for something to be accepted as an historical fact (and here you might want to pay attention, Bear), we kinda sorta do need to see the papers.

Okay, I haven't wanted to reveal this, but now I must. I am Anna Andersen's missing child. I look fantastic for my age, as Helen can vouch, since we have met. Vouch for me, Helen.

Why aren't you taking me seriously? Why aren't you taking me seriously?

Simon, a/k/a That Tschaikovski Boy
"Simon --- Classy AND Compassionate!"
   
"The road to enlightenment is long and difficult, so take snacks and a magazine."

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #926 on: March 20, 2007, 05:27:41 PM »
Youre' so right Masters.  I think almost everything in history is made up by people who have this really big conspiracy to fool us.  I'm glad there are people like you who know the truth and will tell it to us though because we wouldn't know what really happened.  You could get really famous with everything you know so I think you should write some books.

Good idea, Binky!  :D Maybe if Bear and Masters did write a book, then Louis Charles would not make fun of them anymore. They could come up with any ridiculous theory on Anna Anderson or any other fake pretender and he'd respect them! So get writing, and you'll never have to endure personal attacks like this again:

Bear, dear:

If you don't want public cracks about your gullibility, don't make public cracks warning people that some of the people who post are Blue Meanies. If Masters needs to be warned against people who will scrutinize the story of Little Nicky, then he may as well know that you believe in the Easter Bunny.

Why are believing in the Easter Bunny and believing Anna Anderson might still be Anastasia not one in the same?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 05:31:04 PM by Annie »

Offline Louis_Charles

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1498
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #927 on: March 20, 2007, 06:14:26 PM »
Youre' so right Masters.  I think almost everything in history is made up by people who have this really big conspiracy to fool us.  I'm glad there are people like you who know the truth and will tell it to us though because we wouldn't know what really happened.  You could get really famous with everything you know so I think you should write some books.

Good idea, Binky!  :D Maybe if Bear and Masters did write a book, then Louis Charles would not make fun of them anymore. They could come up with any ridiculous theory on Anna Anderson or any other fake pretender and he'd respect them! So get writing, and you'll never have to endure personal attacks like this again:

Bear, dear:

If you don't want public cracks about your gullibility, don't make public cracks warning people that some of the people who post are Blue Meanies. If Masters needs to be warned against people who will scrutinize the story of Little Nicky, then he may as well know that you believe in the Easter Bunny.

Why are believing in the Easter Bunny and believing Anna Anderson might still be Anastasia not one in the same?


Oh, dear. You again. I thought we agreed that We Do Not Play Well Together. It might interest you to know that it is considerably harder to get a book published than to post upon Survivors' threads pretending you have all sorts of information that you are unable to support through even a modicum of citations. And yes, Annie, if you ever succeed in doing that, I will treat your opinions with more respect. Happy? I knew you would be.

I have, in fact, stayed off the Survivor Thread to avoid this very post. Drat.
"Simon --- Classy AND Compassionate!"
   
"The road to enlightenment is long and difficult, so take snacks and a magazine."

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #928 on: March 20, 2007, 06:14:49 PM »
From  those who'd like to know  if  Master's  friend is for real:    Prove it to me and others that it was impossible for this child, whom Masters claimed was born,  to be Michael's.

I've been trying to figure out where this woman fits in the story of Michael and Natasha -- but she seems not to fit anywhere.  Off the top of my head -- so my dates might be slightly wrong -- Natasha and Michael met in 1908.  Their son George was born in 1910, and his birth was not hidden or otherwise shrouded in secrecy.  Masters mentioned that George was Nicolina's "little brother," which means Nicolina would had to have been born sometime in the year-and-a-half or two years between M&N meeting and George's birth.  I haven't had time to consult the Crawford's book, but perhaps someone could -- and let us know what M&N were up to in those years?

....[in part]...


 I think Penny is right about asking about the timeline of 1908 to ten to nine months before George was born in 1910.

If they, GD Michael and Natasha,  weren't even near each other then there is no need to ask  question #2.



AGRBear
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 06:21:47 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline RichC

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #929 on: March 20, 2007, 06:24:58 PM »

Okay, I haven't wanted to reveal this, but now I must. I am Anna Andersen's missing child. I look fantastic for my age, as Helen can vouch, since we have met. Vouch for me, Helen.

Why aren't you taking me seriously? Why aren't you taking me seriously?

Simon, a/k/a That Tschaikovski Boy

So what if Helen "vouches" for you, Simon?  I don't know Helen from Adam.  For all I know, you could be posting as "Helen" from a computer in your family room, then running to a computer in the bedroom and posting as "Louis_Charles"!  Heck, you could be "Masters" for all I know...

And if you look fantastic for your age, let the members of the forum judge for themselves.  We need to see some pix!

And let's hurry up too; my foot is tapping...and I'm bored.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 06:30:05 PM by RichC »